How To Find Gold

Prabhupada: All right, geologist. (laughter) So.... I don’t think geologist. (laughter) Geologist is different. You have no dictionary? Where is my dictionary?

Devotee: It is in the next room. Should I get it?

Prabhupada: All right, we shall see later on. Take it for agronomist, geologist. But soil expert (laughter). Soil expert to... He knows how to find out a particular type of mine. They can find out, “Here there is mica, in this soil there is coal, in this soil there is gold.” So Prahlada Maharaja is giving very nice example that, svarnam yatha gravasu hema-karah. Hema-karah means goldsmith, not goldsmith. Goldsmith is manufacturer of gold ornaments. Hema-karah means gold expert, you can say. He can find out in the soil where there is gold mine. Still there are. I know when I was managing Dr. Bose’s laboratory, one chemist, Chandra Bhusan Vadery (?), he was a well known chemist in Calcutta.

So, one Marwari gentleman was after him. He said that “I know how to find out gold mine.” So, the Marwari gentleman spent after him lakhs of rupees and he said that “Here there is gold,” but unfortunately gold was not found. (chuckles) And the gentleman lost so much money. So, but there are experts otherwise how gold mines are found out? There are experts. So here it is said... It is not new thing. Prahlada Maharaja said that this art is known millions and millions of years ago. It is not that the modern science has discovered airplane, modern science has discovered how to go to other planet and they have mining industry, no. These are all known. There is no question of modern science.

Now, otherwise how Prahlada Maharaja gave this example? Vivikta, viviktatma jnana, jnani napi bhavena brahmata praktikasam syat (?).Question may be put by opposing party that simply by becoming Krsna conscious how one can know God? What will be your answer? What will be your answer? Suppose an opposing party says that “All right, I accept that you are Krsna conscious or God conscious, you have devoted your life for Krsna, so how do you find, how do you see Krsna that you are working for Him?” What will be the answer? Are you following blindly or you have experience of Krsna? Yes. What will be the answer? It’s a very intelligent question. People will ask you, perhaps they ask, “Have you seen Krsna?” “Why you are Krsna conscious?” What is your answer?

Devotee: You see Him through sastra and the teachings of the spiritual master and His arca-vigraha.

Prabhupada: Of course that’s nice, but then you are following blindly your spiritual master. What is your experience?

Devotee: Your heart becomes pure.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Devotee: First you can hear Krsna before you see Him and this is a purification process. And the purification process can be felt and then you ask the person, “You can feel it yourself by chanting Hare Krsna, why not try it?”

Prabhupada: That’s all right, you have tried, whether you have seen? That is the question. You have tried for the last four or five years, whether you have seen Krsna?

Devotee: We cannot see Krsna because our eyes are impure...

Prabhupada: Then you are following blindly.

Devotee: (indistinct) the scriptures and the sastras we get pure.

Prabhupada: He has feeling. That is (indistinct). Anubhava ananta svarupa, paramesvara. That is the (indistinct). You can feel His presence, that is being explained here. (reads Sanskrit commentary) It is very simple. Prahlada Maharaja is saying that as the expert gold miner, when he sees there are gold particles in the field, naturally he concludes.... Still, in India there is a river, in that river gold particles, in the water gold particles can be found. Gold particles. Many poor men they whole day work and strain the water in different way and get some little gold, still.

So, by the symptoms, by the symptoms the expert gold miner finds out that here is gold, gold mine. Because within the soil, or with the soil you find some gold particles. That is the way, here it is said. Similarly, one can find out Krsna by the symptoms, the characteristics, of this world. That is common sense. Just in everything there is a controller. There is a life. Just like in my body, I am controlling this body, and there is living force, living symptoms. Similarly, this whole world which is going on, there are so many things that is, that requires nice brain.

This planetary system is moving nicely, exactly to the order. So, one should consider that there must be some brain behind this—how things are going so nicely. That is common sense. Just like the gold mine expert, as soon as he finds some gold particles either in the vicinity, water or land, they consider there is gold mine. Similarly, when you find that things are going on so nicely, there is a big brain behind this. That is the statement of Professor Einstein. He also says that as we make progress and we see wonderful things, we are bound to believe that there is a big brain. There is a big brain. (reads Sanskrit commentary)

So, as the poor man goes to the river side and by straining the water by—they have a specific process, they find out some gold—similarly, a person ksetresu dehesu atma adhyatma-vid brahma-gatim labheta (?). This meditation means thinking very deeply what I am, what I am. And the process of the yoga system is the same system as you strain water and find out gold. Similarly, if you follow the yoga system, dhyana, dharana, asana, pranayama—that is mechanical—then you will find that “I am the spirit soul and there is Supreme Soul, Krsna.” That is possible. That is really perfection of yoga practice. Not that simply pressing the nose, no.

Actually perfection of yogic meditation is to understand the self; the soul is there and the Supersoul is there. The process is there.astau prakrtayah proktastraya eva hi tad-gunahvikarah sodasacaryaihpuman ekah samanvayatAstau prakrtayah, eight material elements, that is described in the Bhagavad-gita—bhumir apo ’nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca—earth, water, fire, air, sky, and the mind, ahankara, mind, egotism and kham mano buddhi, and intelligence.

These are gross and subtle material elements. Astau prakrtayah proktas traya eva hi tad-gunah, and these material elements are moving by the interaction of the three material qualities—sattva-guna, raja-guna, tamo-guna. One who is situated in the sattva-guna, he is also existing on these eight material elements. And one who is existing in the modes of passion, he is also existing on the... Brahmana’s body, take for example. Brahmana is in the sattva-guna, and ksatriya is in the raja-guna. Vaisya is mixed up and sudra is the tamo-guna.

So existing means the consciousness according to the contamination of different condition of the gunas... This condition is the gunas. Sattva-guna, one who is in sattva-guna, his consciousness is different from the consciousness of the raja-guna. One whose consciousness is raja-guna, his consciousness is different from the tamo-guna. In this way you will find different types of consciousness. In pure there are three. If they’re mixed up—three into three, it becomes nine. Again mixed up—nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. Again mixed up—eighty-one... In this way you will find varieties of life. But they’re based on the three types of consciousness—sattva-guna consciousness, raja-guna consciousness, tamo-guna consciousness.

So when one is transcendental to this contaminated consciousness, polluted by the three qualities of material nature, that is Krsna consciousness.astau prakrtayah proktastraya eva hi tad-gunahvikarah sodasacaryaihpuman ekah samanvayatBut the soul is the same. By external affection in the material world under different qualities, he’s appearing different. Therefore, we have got 8,400,000 of species of life, by different consciousness. When one comes to Krsna consciousness there is no such differentiation, there is one consciousness. Krsna is the Supreme, I am His servant, that’s all. So long one does not come to this platform of Krsna consciousness, there is no possibility of so-called eternity, fraternity, unity, universal brotherhood, that is not possible. It is impossible because they are all contaminated.dehas tu sarva-sanghatojagat tasthur iti dvidhaatraiva mrgyah purusoneti netity atat tyajan(reads Sanskrit commentary)

The Sankhya philosophy here, the description is Sankhya philosophy. Twenty-four elements, twenty-four elements. Eight gross and subtle elements, and then their production, the ten indriya, senses, working senses, and knowledge acquiring senses. Eight, ten, eighteen. Then the sense objects, five. Eighteen plus five, twenty-three. And then the atma, the soul. Twenty-four elements, the Sankhya philosophy, they are analyzed. The Sankhya philosophy. The European philosophers they like very much this Sankhya philosophy system because in the Sankhya philosophy these twenty-four elements have been very much lucidly explained. Sankhya philosophy. Dehas tu sarva-sanghato jagat.

So there are two kinds of bodies, jagat and tasthuh—moving and not moving. But they’re all combination of these twenty-four elements. atraiva mrgyah puruso neti netity, now, one has to find out the atma from these twenty-four elements by eliminating, “Where is atma, where is atma, where is atma.” But one can find out in that way provided he follows the rules and regulations, and the process. That is possible.anvaya-vyatirekenavivekenosatatmanasvarga-sthana-samamnayairvimrsadbhir asatvaraihSo further explanation, this is subject matter little difficult, but it is very important.

Prahlada Maharaja is explaining to his demonic class friends. Five years old boy how he’s explaining the Sankhya philosophy because he’s a devotee and he has heard the whole philosophy from authorities, Narada Muni. Mukham karoti vacalam pangum langhayate girim. Therefore, the spiritual master’s mercy is described, mukham karoti vacalam. Mukham means dumb, one who cannot speak. He becomes a great lecturer or speaker. Although he is dumb but he can become a great lecturer, mukham karoti vacalam. Pangum langhayate girim, and one who is lame, who cannot walk, he can cross over the mountains. Mukham karoti vacalam pangum langhayate... Yat krpa tam aham vande, that by whose mercy these things are possible, I offer my respectful obeisances, param ananda bhavam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, reservoir of all pleasure. By Krsna’s mercy it is possible.

By material calculation it is not possible. Material calculation one will say that “How it is possible, you say the dumb is lecturing very nicely? That is not possible.” Or, “That lame man is now crossing the mountains?” So materially it is not possible. But by the mercy of Krsna or His representative... Just like Prahlada Maharaja, five years old boy, he is explaining so nicely about the constitution of the soul. Why? Because he has obtained the mercy of Narada Muni, the representative of Krsna. So it is possible. So we’ll stop. (end)

Searching After The Divine

Interview--New York, July 5, 1972

Guest (1): Yes, I guess it would be hard to define in terms of a search. Man’s…, man’s search for something divine. I’d…, I’d define it in terms of, of a search for the divine. I’ve been studying Russian Elders in the Orthodox Church. Perhaps that’s a tradition that you’re familiar with in some way. They seem to have found the divine. I guess that’s religion too. It seems to me both are, but perhaps you have a better definition than that?

Prabhupada: Yes. When you are searching with some hope, what is that hope? Why you are searching? When you are missing something, then there is a question of searching for that missing point. You said religion means searching after the divine. So that means you are missing the divine. Is it not?

Guest (1): That’s right.

Prabhupada: Now, the next question will be, What do you mean by this “divine”?

Guest (1): Oh, I’m not…, I’m not sure, Your Grace.

Prabhupada: The other day we were talking with some scientists. We came to this conclusion, that the scientists, big scientists, they are simply concerned with the laws of nature, because the laws of nature are very stringent. For example, there is death. Everyone will die. So nobody can check death. However great scientist he may, he cannot stop death. By laws of nature one is becoming old. By your scientific advancement you can stop first of all. So the science means they are trying to overcome the stringent laws of nature, but so far… Not so far—even in the past in the human history they could not. In the present also they are unable. They say in future they will be able. But how we can believe it? Because in the past they could not; in the present also they are unable. How they can overcome the laws of nature in the future? History repeats. Same failure there is (indistinct). Therefore the divine means, as we define, the divine means the controller of the laws of nature. Laws of nature there is, and everyone is under the laws of nature. Nobody can overcome the laws of nature. Just like state laws. Every citizen is bound to abide by the state law. He cannot overcome it. If…, if he overcomes it then, or violates it, the violation of law, and he becomes punishable. Similarly the laws of nature means laws of God. Just like your president is the giver of your state law. Similarly, as soon as we say laws of nature, there must be giver of them. In our sastra, the Vedic literature, it is said, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, religion, means the codes given by God, and we have to abide by those laws. When we do not abide by those laws, then we violate the laws of nature, of God, and we become punishable.Now, who is that person, or the authority, who is giving that law, who is controlling that law? That is divine search. But that divine search cannot be completed by the speculation of our imperfect senses. Our senses are imperfect; therefore whatever knowledge we gather by speculating our imperfect senses, that is imperfect. Just like the sun. The sun is very big, bigger, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth, but with our imperfect eyes we see just like a disk. If we remain satisfied with this imperfect knowledge, then we remain in darkness. We have to know the sun from the astronomer. They have calculated. They know. In this way knowledge, perfect knowledge, can be attained—when it is received through the perfect knower, not by speculation. That speculation means I shall speculate with limited mind and imperfect senses. So however carefully or expertly I manage with the instruments, they are themselves imperfect. Therefore Vedic sastra says that to understand the divine you must have divine mercy. You must possess. Athapi te deva padambuja-dvaya-prasada-lesanugrhita eva hi janati tattvam. One can understand the truth by the grace of… So searching after divine means we must search after the grace of the divine. Just like a very big man, just like President Nixon. So I am speculating that President Nixon is like that, like that, like this, his function is like that, he eats like this, he sleeps like this. That is speculation. But if I hear directly from President Nixon or his representative, very confidential representative, then it is perfect knowledge. I cannot speculate to know about President Nixon by my imperfect senses. I must know about President Nixon when he speaks personally about himself or his personal associate speaks about. That is the way.

Guest (1): If our senses are imperfect, then with what sense do we perceive the Divine that underlies these laws of nature?

Prabhupada: That our senses are imperfect means, just like I have given the example, I can see the sun, but I do not see the sun perfectly. I have got the power to see the sun, but I do not know how big is the sun. That power I haven’t got. In that way my senses are imperfect. So when I see the sun and hear about him from a perfect person who knows about the sun, then my knowledge becomes perfect, although I have got imperfect senses. Just like I cannot understand President Nixon by my speculation, but when President speaks about him I can understand, although I have got imperfect senses. This is the process. Imperfect in this way: that our senses cannot approach to the ultimate point by speculation.

Guest (1): Well I agree with that, but I still… The perfect person that is going to speak to me is God? Is that…

Prabhupada: That, that we’ll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.

Guest (1): That’s what I was getting at.

Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?

Devotee: Please. Yes.

Guest (2): Swami, please, I don’t want to interrupt. I want to try and ask you a few questions (indistinct). I’m with (indistinct). Swami, what do you think accounts for the…, your popularity, popularity of the…, the Krsna consciousness movement sweeping America?

Prabhupada: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.

Guest (2): What can appreciation of Krsna do for the Americans (indistinct)?

Prabhupada: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are…, you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aisvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaisvarya sruta, to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And sri, sri means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Krsna consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Krsna consciousness makes your life perfect.

Guest (2): Do you foresee that the devotees will grow in numbers in this country?

Prabhupada: There is possibility. Otherwise why these young men are coming? That I can say. There is good possibility, but we have no facility. Just like government is spending to stop the LSD intoxication, millions of dollars. But our students, as soon as they come, they become my students, I simply order them, “No intoxication.” So what to speak of LSD, they do not take tea, they do not take coffee, they do not smoke. But government will not help us. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Do you seek government help?

Prabhupada: Yes. If I get government help, I can give protection to these confused, frustrated youths. I have no proper house to accommodate them, to feed them. With great difficulty I am pushing on this movement. So if the government comes forward, this means a little facility, I can turn the face of your country, immediately. There will be no problem.

Guest (2): What can you cure? What can you make better?

Prabhupada: This is the cure: I am making good character. Don’t you see their face? Some of them were hippies, frustrated, wretched condition. Now they are known as bright faces, serious character. They don’t have any illicit sex. They don’t eat meat. They don’t have any intoxication. They don’t engage in gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. If you allow people to indulge in sinful life, how you can expect good citizen? That is not possible. Their character must reform. So we have taken from the root. We are making men of character, knowledge, sincerity, God conscious. Don’t you appreciate it?

Guest (2): Will they be able to function in a society as working individuals?

Prabhupada: Yes. There is nothing prohibited. Simply you have to change your consciousness, that’s all. We are also eating, we are also sleeping. Many of our students are householders; they have sex. So there is…, nothing is prohibited, but regulated for higher achievement. That is our program.