WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THE WORLD?

On the 16th of February 1957 a meeting was held at the Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan to discuss the above subject matter. Distinguished gentlemen from different categories spoke on the subject, but practically nobody could give us a definite direction as to what actually the matter was that was troubling the whole situation.

This feeling of pinching in the existence of our life is a good sign for progress. It is an urge for enquiry what is the wrong in the world that gives us trouble? This trouble is not a new thing but it is a matter of permanent settlement in all the days of life, but it may be felt at different times in different colour. The troubles are in varieties in relation with our mind and body, in relation with our dealings with other living beings and in relation with natural phenomenons.

The present pinching trouble of our political leaders in the matter of Kashmir affairs is a trouble in relation with our other friendly nations. Kashmir is a part of India, not only at present but it is so from a time immemorial but the Kashmir problem has arisen as a matter of course because the world is so created that must there exist some sort of trouble, may be it is in relation with the body or other living beings or the natural phenomenon.These troubles are like the forest fire. Fire takes place in the dense forest without any attempt by any living being. Nobody in the forest do want such fire, but it takes place without any demand. When there is fire, the living beings in the forest are put into trouble and sometimes it so happens that most of the forest creatures die in that havoc. There is no fire brigade in the forest or on the top of a forest mountain and there is no hope for of extinguishing the fire by any human attempt. It takes by the natural laws, and it is extinguished by natural laws also, that is, when there is torrent of rains in the forest.

That is the natural law and these laws are so rigid and stern that no human brain, however it may be powerful, can solve these problems of natural laws.An intelligent person, who has actually developed some finer qualities of human consciousness, can understand that every law is made by an intelligent brain and behind every law there is the lawmaker who makes the law.

So for all these natural laws, there is the Supreme Lawmaker, who is the Absolute Personality of Godhead. In the 'Bhagwat Gétä' we have, therefore, information that natural laws are so stringent that they cannot be overcome by anybody. But whoever surrenders unto the Supreme Lord can overcome them.The King is the lawmaker and if he likes he can forgive a lawbreaker by special prerogative of the King - by the 'King's mercy,' but the King can do no wrong even if he sometimes breaks the law. That is, an experience of a common man in the phenomenal world and the same thing is applicable in the matter of Supreme laws also.The natural laws are like police actions by the agents of Godhead.

Men, who are too much captivated by the glamour of material beauty and tries to enjoy it falsely without acknowledgement of its Creator, are called demons. The stringent natural laws are meant for the criminals but not for the law-abiders. Therefore, the perfect answer to the question 'What is the matter with the world?' is that Men have become demons by breaking laws of God, and therefore they are being punished by the police action of material nature. That is the verdict of all scriptures and that is our day-to-day life's experience.In the 'BHAGWAT GITA' a vivid description of the law-breaker demoniac men are given in the 16th chapter and such men are punished by the laws of God - are also maintained.

Human civilizations are conducted in two ways. One type of civilization can make every human being as much qualified as God is. And the other type of civilization can make every man no less than a jungle beast and thereby making this world unfit for human habitation.A human being is called a rational animal. When rationality is destroyed, the human being is left an ordinary animal. The difference between a human being and an animal is based on the strength of human being's being above the animal propensities. The animal part of a human being necessarily require food to eat, shelter to live in, protection from fear and gratification of senses. These four principles of life are common both to the man and the animals. But there is another thing which is specially meant for the human being. This is God-consciousness.

This God-consciousness is conspicuous by absence in the animal life, while in the human life this God-consciousness is in dormant stage even in the society of the aborigines. This God-consciousness develops in different grades of human civilization in terms of particular place, time and persons. This God-consciousness is called Religion or Culture of Life without which no civilization can stand.The present day civilization is trying to avoid this God-consciousness of human life by artificial method of material science and forcible atheism. It is learnt from reliable sources that in an atheistic state, the village people were called in a meeting and were asked to pray in the Church for daily bread. The innocent villagers prayed in the Church for daily bread, and when the prayer was over the state officers asked them whether breads were supplied. The village men replied that there was no bread.

The atheist politicians asked them again to pray for bread from them (the statesmen) and bread was at once supplied. And by this method the innocent villagers were made victims of propaganda by atheistic politicians with the result that all the villagers became gradually faithless in God, because wrongly they accepted that the bread was supplied by the politicians and not by God.The poor victims of such propaganda did not understand that the breads supplied by the politicians were not made by the father of the politicians but actually they were sent by God. No politician can manufacture bread without wheat. No wheat is produced without sun rays or rains from the sky. No rains are possible without obedience to God.

No atheist can live and decry God without eating bread. And therefore whoever eats bread without acknowledging in gratitude of his indebtedness to God is certainly a demon and for such demons the stringent natural laws are meant for punishment. A time is nearing when there will be no wheat paddy in the field and no politician will be able to make a quick supply of bread. The food problem is already acute.The atheistic civilization is to be troubled more and more with the progress of materialism. We have such foretellings in the pages of Çrémad Bhagwat. The more the people are turning to the atheistic, the more things of disturbing elements do appear before us. And that is the thing which matters at present. This is a wrong type of civilization.

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Christ and Krishna

Srila Prabhupada: What is the meaning of the word Christ?

Father Emmanuel: Christ comes from the Greek word Christos, meaning "the anointed one".

Srila Prabhupada: Christos is the Greek version of the word Krishna.

Father Emmanuel: This is very interesting.

Srila Prabhupada: When an Indian person calls on Krishna, he often says, "Krsta". Krsta is a Sanskrit word meaning "attraction". So when we address God as "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krishna" we indicate the same all-attractive Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Jesus said, " Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be Thy name," the name of God was Krsta or Krishna. Do you agree?

Father Emmanuel: I think Jesus, as the son of God, has revealed to us the actual name of God: Christ. We can call God "Father", but if we want to address Him by His actual name, we have to say "Christ".

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. "Christ" is another way of saying Krsta and Krsta is another way of pronouncing Krishna, the name of God. Jesus said that one should glorify the name of God, but yesterday I heard one theologian say that God has no name -- that we can call Him only "Father". A son may call his father "Father", but the father also has a specific name. Similarly, God is the general name of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose specific name is Krishna. Therefore whether you call God "Christ", "Krsta", or "Krishna", ultimately you are addressing the same Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Father Emmanuel: Yes, if we speak of God's actual name, then we must say, "Christos". In our religion we have the Trinity: the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe we can know the name of God only by revelation from the son of God. Jesus Christ revealed the name of the Father, and therefore we take the name "Christ" as the revealed name of God.

Srila Prabhupada: Actually, it doesn't matter -- Krishna or Christ -- the name is the same. The main point is to follow the injunctions of the Vedic scriptures that recommend chanting the name of God in this age. The easiest way is to chant the maha-mantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare/ Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare. Rama and Krishna are names of God and Hare is the energy of God. So when we chant the maha-mantra we address God along with His energy. This energy is of two kinds, the spiritual and the material. At present we are in the clutches of the material energy. Therefore we pray to Krishna that He may kindly deliver us from the service of the material energy and accept us into the service of the spiritual energy. This is our whole philosophy. Hare Krishna means, "O energy of God, O God (Krishna), please engage me in Your service." It is our nature to render service. Somehow or other we have come to the service of material things, but when this service is transformed into the service of the spiritual energy, then our life is perfect. To practice bhakti-yoga [loving service to God] means to become free from designations like Hindu, Muslim, Christian, this or that, and simply to serve God. We have created Christian, Hindu and Mohammedan religions, but when we come to a religion without designations, in which we don't think we are Hindus or Christians or Mohammedans, then we can speak of pure religion, or bhakti.

Father Emmanuel: Mukti? [liberation from material miseries]

Srila Prabhupada: No, bhakti. When we speak of bhakti, mukti is included. Without bhakti, there is no mukti, but if we act on the platform of bhakti, then mukti is included. We learn this from the Bhagavad-gita (14.26):

mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa gunan samatityaitan
brahma-bhuyaya kalpate

"One who engages in full devotional service, who does not fall down under any circumstance, at once transcends the modes of material nature and thus comes to the level of Brahman."

Father Emmanuel: Is Brahman Krishna?

Srila Prabhupada: Krishna is Parabrahman. Brahman is realised in three aspects: as impersonal Brahman, as localised Paramatma and as personal Brahman. Krishna is personal and He is the Supreme Brahman, for God is ultimately a person. In Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.2.11), this is confirmed:

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj-jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmati
bhagavan iti sabdyate

"Learned transcendentalists, who know the Absolute Truth, call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan." The feature of the Supreme Personality is the ultimate realisation of God. He has all six opulences in full: He is the strongest, the richest, the most beautiful, the most famous, the wisest and the most renounced.

Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.

Srila Prabhupada: Because God is absolute, His name, His form and His qualities are all absolute and they are nondifferent from Him. Therefore to chant God's holy name means to associate directly with Him. When one associates with God one acquires Godly qualities and when one is completely purified he becomes an associate of the Supreme Lord.

Father Emmanuel: But our understanding of the name of God is limited.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, we are limited, but God is unlimited. And because He is unlimited, or absolute, he has unlimited names, each if which is God. We can understand His names as much as our spiritual understanding is developed.

What is the difference between Krishna consciousness and Christianity?

Father Emmanuel: May I ask a question? We Christians also preach love of God, and we try to realise love of God and render service to Him with all our heart and all our soul. Now, what is the difference between your movement and ours? Why do you send your disciples to the Western countries to preach love of God when the gospel of Jesus Christ is propounding the same message?

Srila Prabhupada: The problem is that the Christians do not follow the commandments of God. Do you agree?

Father Emmanuel: Yes, to a large extent you're right.

Srila Prabhupada: Then what is the meaning of the Christians' love for God? If you do not follow the orders of God, then where is your love? Therefore we have come to teach what it means to love God. If you love Him you cannot be disobedient to His orders. And if you are disobedient your love is not real.

Srila Prabhupada: All over the world people don't love God. They love their dogs. The Krishna consciousness movement is therefore necessary to teach people how to revive their forgotten love for God. Not only the Christians, but also the Hindus, the Mohammedans and all others are guilty. They have rubber-stamped themselves as Christian, Hindu or Mohammedan, but they do not obey God. This is the problem

Visitor: Can we say in what way the Christians are disobedient?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. The first point is they violate the commandment "Thou shall not kill" by maintaining slaughterhouses. Do you agree that this commandment is being violated?

Father Emmanuel: Personally, I agree.

Srila Prabhupada: Good. So if the Christians want to love God, they must stop killing animals.

Father Emmanuel: But isn't the most important point...

Srila Prabhupada: If you miss one point there is a mistake in your calculation. Regardless of what you add or subtract after that the mistake is already in the calculation and everything that follows will also be faulty. We cannot simply accept the part of the scripture we like and reject what we don't like and still expect to get the result. For example, a hen lays eggs with it's back part and eats with it's beak. A farmer may consider, "The front part of the hen is very expensive because I have to feed it. Better to cut it off." But if the head is missing there will be no eggs any more because the body is dead. Similarly, if we reject the difficult part of the scriptures and obey the part we like, such an interpretation will not help us. We have to accept all the injunctions of the scriptures as they are given , not just those that suit us. If you do not follow the first order, "Thou shall not kill," then where is the question of love of God?

Visitor: Christians take this commandment to be applicable to human beings, not to animals.

Srila Prabhupada: That would mean Christ was not intelligent enough to use the right word: murder. There is killing, and there is murder, Murder refers to human beings. Do you think Jesus was not intelligent enough to use the right word. Killing means any kind of killing and especially animal killing. If Jesus had meant simply the killing of humans he would have used the word murder.

• Mathew:5:21: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
• Mark:10:19: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
• Luke:18:20: Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
• Romans:13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
• James:2:11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

Father Emmanuel: But in the Old Testament the commandment "Thou shall not kill" does refer to murder. And when Jesus said, "Thou shall not kill," he extended the commandment to mean a human being should not only refrain from killing another human being, but should also treat him with love. He never spoke about man's relationship with other living entities but only about his relationship with other human beings. When he said, "thou shall not kill," he also meant in the mental and emotional sense -- that you should not insult anyone or hurt him, treat him badly and so on.

Srila Prabhupada: We are not concerned with this or that testament but only with the words used in the commandments. If you want to interpret these words, that is something else. We understand the direct meaning. "Thou shall not kill" means, "The Christians should not kill." You may put forward interpretations in order to continue the present way of action but we understand very clearly there is no need for interpretation. Interpretation is necessary if things are not clear. "Thou shall not kill" is a clear instruction. Why should we interpret it?

Father Emmanuel: Isn't the eating of plants also killing?

Srila Prabhupada: The Vaisnava philosophy teaches that we should not even kill plants unnecessarily. In the Bhagavad-gita (9.26) Krishna says:

patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnami prayatatmanah

"If someone offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, a fruit or a little water, I will accept it." We offer Krishna only the kind of food He demands, and then we eat the remnants. If offering vegetarian food to Krishna were sinful, then it would be Krishna's sin, not ours. But God is apapa-vijna -- sinful reactions are not applicable to Him. He is like the sun, which is so powerful that it can purify even urine -- something impossible for us to do. Krishna is also like a king, who may order a murderer to be hanged, but who himself is not subject to punishment because he is very powerful. Eating food first offered to the Lord is also something like a soldier's killing during wartime. In a war, when the commander orders a man to attack, the obedient soldier who kills the enemy will get a medal. But if the same soldier kills someone on his own he will be punished. Similarly when we eat only prasada [the remnants of food offered to Krishna], we do not commit any sin. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita (3.13):

yajna-sistasinah santo
mucyante sarva-kilbisaih
bhunjate te tu agham papa
ye pacanty atma-karanat

"The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food that is first offered for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin."

Father Emmanuel: Krishna cannot give permission to eat animals?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes -- in the animal kingdom. But the civilized human being, the religious human being is not meant to kill and eat animals. If you stop killing animals and chant the holy name Christ, everything will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but only to request you to please chant the name of God. The Bible also demands this of you. So let's kindly cooperate and chant, and if you have a prejudice about chanting the name Krishna then chant "Christos" or "Krsta" -- there is no difference. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: namnam akari bahu-dha nija-sarva-saktis. "God has millions and millions of names, and because there is no difference between God's name and Himself, each one of these names has the same potency as God." Therefore even if you accept designations like Hindu, Christian or Mohammedan, if you simply chant the name of God found in your own scriptures, you will attain the spiritual platform. Human life is meant for self-realisation -- to learn how to love God. That is the actual beauty of man. Whether you discharge this duty as a Hindu, a Christian or a Mohammedan, it doesn't matter -- but do it?

Father Emmanuel: I agree.

Srila Prabhupada: [pointing to a string of 108 meditation beads] We always have these beads, just as you have your rosary. You are chanting, but why don't the other Christians also chant? Why should they miss this opportunity as human beings? Cats and dogs cannot chant, but we can because we have a human tongue. If we chant the holy names of God, we cannot loose anything; on the contrary, we gain greatly. My disciples practice chanting Hare Krishna constantly. They could also go to the cinema, or do so many other things, but they have given everything up. They eat neither fish nor meat nor eggs, they don't take intoxicants, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't partake in gambling, they don't speculate and they don't maintain illicit sexual connections. But they do chant the holy name of God. If you would like to cooperate with us then go to the other churches and chant, "Christ", "Krishna" or "Krsta". What could be the objection?

Instead of keeping the churches closed, why not give them to us?

Father Emmanuel: There is none. For my part I would be glad to join you.

Srila Prabhupada: No. We are speaking with you as a representative of the Christian church. Instead of keeping the churches closed why not give them to us? We would chant the holy name of God there twenty-four hours a day. In many places we have bought churches that were practically closed because no one was going there. In London I saw hundreds of churches that were closed or used for mundane purposes. We bought one such church in Los Angeles. It was sold because no one came there, but if you visit the same church today, you will see thousands of people. Any intelligent person can understand what God is in five minutes; it doesn't require five hours.

Father Emmanuel: I understand.

Srila Prabhupada: But the people do not. Their disease is that they don't want to understand.

Visitor: I think understanding God is not a question of intelligence but a question of humility.

Srila Prabhupada: Humility means intelligence. "The humble and meek own the kingdom of God." This is stated in the Bible, is it not? But the philosophy of the rascals is that everyone is God and today this idea has become popular. Therefore no one is humble and meek. If everybody thinks he is God, why should he be humble and meek? Therefore I teach my disciples how to become humble and meek. They always offer their respectful obeisances in the temple and to the spiritual master, and in this way they make advancement. The qualities of humbleness and meekness lead very quickly to spiritual realisation. In the Vedic scriptures it is said, "To those who have firm faith in God and the spiritual master, who is His representative, the meaning of the Vedic scriptures is revealed."

Father Emmanuel: But shouldn't this humility be offered to everyone else also?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes, but there are two kinds of respect: special and ordinary. Sri Krishna Caitanya taught that we shouldn't expect honour for ourselves, but should always respect everyone else, even if he is disrespectful to us. But special respect should be given to God and His pure devotee.

Father Emmanuel: Yes, I agree.

Srila Prabhupada: I think the Christian priests should cooperate with the Krishna consciousness movement. They should chant the name of Christ or Christos and should stop condoning the slaughter of animals. This program follows the teachings of the Bible; it is not my philosophy. Please act accordingly and you will see how the world situation will change.

Father Emmanuel: Thank you very much

Srila Prabhupada: Hare Krishna!

Dog Race in a Dangerous Place

Dog Race in a Dangerous Place

morning walk in Denver, Colorado, on June 28, 1975.

Srila Prabhupada: Until these world leaders read my books and take to this Vedic culture, what kind of civilization will they have? Dog race. Horse race. They want this. Rat race. That's all. Their civilization is a race. Dog race. Horse race. Rat race. The citizens do not know anything about this great science of the soul. Modern civilization means that people are simply becoming rascals, animals. Of course, strictly speaking, theirs is a motor race. They have advanced beyond the common dog race to a motor race. But if a doggish person is running not on four legs but on four wheels, does that mean he is not a dog? It is the same race. The same race--whether by running on four legs or on four wheels. The race is the same, and the dog is the same.

So this civilization is a glorified dog race. Modern man does not know, "I may feel proud of racing around in a car, but is there any value if I do not understand the meaning of my life?" Hmm? So this is going on. A big, big highway for dog racing--that is modern civilization.

And when rascal yogis and swamis present their version of the Vedic culture, they say something like, "By this transcendental meditation you will keep your dog race very nice." In reality, these yogis and swamis are bewildered by this materialistic civilization. "Oh, very nice. It is very nice." That's all. In Bhagavad-gita Krishna describes such personalities. Mohitam nabhijanati mam ebhyah param avyayam: "Bewildered by the modes of material nature, fools and rascals do not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible." The modern world is filled with such mudhas, rascals. So, again, the only hope is that you distribute my books as much as possible.

In London there is a big stadium for dog racing. Do you know that? Many people go to see the dogs race.

Disciple: In America dog racing is very popular, as well. Here in Denver, people love to go.

Srila Prabhupada: To the dog race? [Laughter.]

Disciple: We've gone there, too, Srila Prabhupada, to distribute your books.

Srila Prabhupada: In Australia, also--Sydney--oh, they are very fond of dog racing. Many men take their big dogs for racing.

Disciple: It makes for good gambling.

Srila Prabhupada: And in Europe, being aristocratic means keeping many horses and many dogs. That is aristocracy. The aristocrats ride on horses, and taking their dogs, they go to the forest and kill some innocent birds. This is the extent of their heroic activities. [To a Disciple:] Do you remember that palace we went to see in France?

Disciple: Yes. In the hallway they had many pictures of aristocrats killing birds and foxes. Pictures to memorialize these great personalities and their heroic activities.

Srila Prabhupada: In Paris we saw a huge statue of Napoleon. And we recalled Napoleon's boast, "I am France." France is still there, but there is no Napoleon. [Laughter.] Napoleon, finished. Hitler, finished. Gandhi, finished.

Disciple: Srila Prabhupada, in the same place where we saw that statue of Napoleon, formerly there had been another statue, one of Louis XIV. Napoleon pulled that one down and replaced it with his own statue.

Srila Prabhupada: And some day someone else will come and replace Napoleon's statue. For instance, in Karachi they have pulled Gandhi's statue down.

Nothing in this material world will stay. So always chant Hare Krishna. This is a very dangerous place. Padam padam yad vipadam: This is a place where at every step there is danger. Right now, for example, we are walking in a very nice park, but at any moment there may be a revolution and the whole thing may change. The whole thing may become like fire, just as it has now become in India. So we should remember that here in this material world, padam padam yad vipadam: At every step there is danger.

Therefore, give up your attachment for this place. That is real intelligence. And yet the modern educational system is misleading people into maya-sukhaya: making gorgeous plans for temporary happiness. That's all. If in the slaughterhouse the animals are kept very comfortably, what is the meaning of it?

Disciple: No meaning. They'll still be slaughtered.

Srila Prabhupada: It is sure that all the animals will be slaughtered. So even if, let us say, the animals could arrange that "All right, before being slaughtered, let us live very comfortably," would that be very good intelligence? Intelligence consists in inquiring, "Why must we be slaughtered? How to stop this business?" That is intelligence. How do you define slaughterhouse? What does slaughterhouse mean?

Disciple: A slaughterhouse is a place where many animals are sent to be killed brutally.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. In a slaughterhouse, many animals are brought together expressly to be killed. So this whole material world is a slaughterhouse. And when there is need, many two-legged animals will be brought together into a war and killed.

This place is a slaughterhouse. And yet the foolish two-legged animal is thinking, "I am now very comfortably situated." He forgets, "I am going to be slaughtered." Mrtyu-samsara-sagarat: "This place is an ocean of slaughter." In Bhagavad-gita Lord Krishna confirms it--mrtyu-samsara-sagarat. This place is a slaughterhouse. But people are accepting it as their home. Another name for this material world is mrtyu-loka. Mrtyu-loka--"the place of death." But still, they are taking it as a very comfortable place. This is their intelligence: accepting a slaughterhouse as a very nice place. When you point these things out to these animals who are going to be slaughtered, how do they respond?

Disciple: Well, Srila Prabhupada, just a few days ago, in New York, a lightning bolt struck an airliner and sent it crashing down onto a big highway. A ghastly, horrifying scene, with hundreds of people screaming in agony as they lost their lives. After that, I was passing out your books at the Denver airport and mentioning, "How about that New York crash? Seems any of us could die at any moment, you know?"

But most people in the terminal looked up from their cushy chairs and said, "Oh, I've got my whole life in front of me." Things like that. "I'm just devoting my attention to getting ahead. I'm enjoying my life far too much to start indulging in that kind of negative thinking."

Srila Prabhupada: Oh. Just see. Slaughterhouse. But still, somehow people hope to find real, lasting comfort within the slaughterhouse.

Disciple: Srila Prabhupada, in your lecture the other day in Los Angeles, you said that when a great war happens, with many people killed, it has been arranged by the Supreme. As in the battle of Kuruksetra.

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Krishna states that fact to Arjuna. "You are feeling intense affection for your family members, even though they are trying to usurp your kingdom by mounting a massive attack. You are thinking, very nobly, that you do not wish to kill your family members.

But it is already settled. They must be killed here. I have brought them. You may kill them or not kill them--they will be killed. That is My plan. If you want, you may take credit that you have been victorious in the battle."

And modern warfare is the same kind of arrangement. It is all prearranged. War means bringing many two-legged animals together and killing them. Finished. And that is happening every so often. A Napoleon is being sent for killing. Or a Hitler is being sent for killing. In India, the Lord Himself comes for killing. Lord Ramacandra came for killing Ravana, and Lord Krishna came for killing the Kauravas.

Disciple: But, Srila Prabhupada, in these big wars aren't the Lord's devotees killed, also?

Wasn't that true even during the battle of Kuruksetra?

Srila Prabhupada: Well, during the battle of Kuruksetra, all five Pandava brothers were saved. When the battle was over, all five brothers remained. So when there is a war, it is not that all the devotees are saved, but mostly they are saved. And more importantly, Krishna assures,

janma karma ca me divyam
evam yo vetti tattvatah
tyaktva deham punar janma
naiti mam eti so 'rjuna

"Upon giving up this body, those who know the transcendental nature of My advent and activities never return to this miserable and temporary material world. Rather, they come back home to Me."

Like We Identify With Our Car

This is stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

isvarah sarva-bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya
[Bg. 18.61]

So isvara, the Supreme Lord, is there. Now He's giving chance, "You living entity, you did not surrender to Me. You wanted to enjoy this material world. So you take this chariot and take this driver and go on." This is going on. Krsna is very kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante. "Whatever you want, you do it. But you'll never be happy." That is the point. "You can do whatever. I will give you chance. I'll give you." Just like you want a Rolls Royce car. "All right, it is." If you want this car, "All right." So you are changing this car. Sometimes you are carried by the doggish cars, sometimes goddish car. These are all cars, but we are different from the car. We wanted to sit down in a certain car, so Krsna is giving us the chance. Bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani [Bg. 18.61]. Yantra means car or machine. It is very easy to understand. So this is going on because we are identifying with the car. Just like foolish man, if he rides on a Rolls Royce car, he's thinking "Now I am very rich man. I have bought a Rolls Royce." Similarly, if one body has got inferior car, he thinks that "I am poor"; identifying with the car.

But he's not car. He's different from car. This knowledge is required. This is called visoko brahma-sampattya. When we understand our spiritual identity, then we are no more lamenting or jubilation, equalit... equilibrium. Read the purport. It is very important verse.

Pradyumna: "Doubts of duality begin from the misconception of the material body, which is accepted as the self by less intelligent persons. The most foolish part of our ignorance..."

Prabhupada: That we were discussing in our walking, that the basic principle of this modern civilization is wrong. Everyone, the so-called advanced scientists, so-called advanced philosopher or politician, everyone is thinking that "I am this body." So on the basic principle they're wrong. Therefore the so-called advancement of civilization is wrong. It's... At one point mathematical calculation, if you have done mistake in one point... Two plus two equal two. Why if you have made up three, the mistake, then the whole calculation will be mistaken. The balance, it will never tally. Similarly, our present civilization... Not present; it is always there. Now it is very strong bodily conception of life, so the basic principle is wrong. Therefore what..., whatever we are advancing, that is wrong. Parabhava That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Parabhavas Basic principle is wrong, abodha, in ignorance. In ignorance. Abodha means without any perfect knowledge.

So we are born without any perfect knowledge. That is natural. We have to sent..., we have to be sent to school for learning. Therefore these books are there. Why for these books are being written? Just for the learning of the human society. So they can learn it. Cats and dogs cannot read these Bhagavata or Bhagavad-gita. It is meant for human society. So they should take advantage of this knowledge. But if they remain in the darkness of ignorance, then what is the meaning of their advancement? It has no meaning. So that is going on. They too do not accept knowledge from the authority. They manufacture. How you can manufacture? You are a fool, so whatever you manufacture, so-called knowledge, that is also foolish. How can we depend on your foolish knowledge? Abodha-jata. Everyone is fool. He cannot manufacture. He has to learn to take knowledge from a person who knows. The he's perfect. That is our system. We are taking knowledge from Krsna. We are taking knowledge is perfect. We are taking authority. As we are, we are defective. Our position is sometimes we do mistake -- "two plus two equals five." But it is not fact. So two plus two must be four. But if we make "five" or "three," that means the whole background becomes wrong. That is... we are liable to do that mistake. And illusion. Illusion means two plus two equal to four; I have written "five," but I am seeing it is all right. I'm seeing it is all right: "two." Therefore one should not correct himself. Another person should take the editorial correction work, because the man who has written he sees that it is right. This is called illusion. [Srila Prabhupada, Lecture, Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.15.31 -- Los Angeles, December 9, 197]