Following Scientific Athority

Morning Walk With Srila Prabhupada
--
December 12, 1975, Vrndavana

Prabhupada: ...sun globe. You explain to them.
Harikesa: We can see there’s life in the air, there are fishes in the water and birds in the air. And in the earth there are so many worms and crabs and things like that. We see life in these forms but why is it not true that we can see life in fire? We can’t see life in fire because we haven’t the experience. But because there’s life in...
Aksayananda: If you don’t have the experience, it doesn’t mean there’s no life.
Harikesa: Because there’s life...
Prabhupada: Hm? Hm?
Aksayananda: Because we have not experienced it doesn’t mean that there’s no life.
Prabhupada: Yes. That I have already explained. That, you’ll see in big, big factories, there is fire. Flame is coming. By seeing the flame, if you think there is no life, is that not nonsense?
Harikesa: Oh, you gave the example last night of...
Prabhupada: So many example. You go to the Tata iron factory, from distance you’ll see so many fire flames. Does it mean there is no life? That is nonsense.
Aksayananda: Another point is somebody had to light the fire.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Aksayananda: Somebody must have lit that fire. So similarly the light of the sun, who has started that light?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Somebody has started that light, that fire.
Prabhupada: So in this way the nonsense scientists are going on. What do you think? Eh?
Harikesa: So this idea of friction causing electricity, so is electricity—this electrical energy—the source of fire? That’s what the scientists think sometimes too, that the lightning bolt came down and made a fire. And that was man’s first experience of fire as a caveman.
Aksayananda: So where did the lightning bolt come from?
Prabhupada: Yes. How the lightning was manufactured, rascal?
Harikesa: Well, there were some positive charges in the clouds and some negative charges in the ground.
Prabhupada: That’s alright. Who made that positive charge and negative charge?
Aksayananda: So let them manufacture lightning bolts in the Tata factory.
Prabhupada: How the electricity is produced unless there is some arrangement? Just put counter-argument and argument, try to understand. You have to preach. So your argument stopped?
Harikesa: I don’t know anything about this. (laughter)
Prabhupada: You cannot... Your malador masjid(?). Arguments are there, so whether there is life in the sun globe?
Indian man: (Hindi—discussion with Srila Prabhupada and other Indian men about sastra, scientists, agni, and the example of the iron factory)
Prabhupada: Jaya.
Devotees: Hare Krsna!
Harikesa: But the fire and the life is different in the Tata factory.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: The fire is different from the life. The fire is produced.
Prabhupada: The fire is the same. There is fire. Fire is the same. In the life the fire is not different.
Harikesa: No, what I mean to say in the example, that the people are there and the fire is also there...
Prabhupada: Hm.
Harikesa: So, in a...
Prabhupada: Exactly the same way. In the factory there is big fire and there are workers also.
Harikesa: But the life is the workers not the fire.
Prabhupada: No. I mean to say, in the midst of fire, the living entity can live. That is my argument.
Aksayananda: But they can’t jump in the fire and live. They will die.
Prabhupada: No. That is material body. Spiritual... In the Bhagavad-gita there is, (it says that) it does not burn into fire, in the fire. Adahyah, adahyah. So living entity is never burnt. Even if he’s in the fire. So he may have a body of fire but he does not burn.
Aksayananda: But why should we accept that, because to make our factory we did not need Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Aksayananda: To make our factory we did not need Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Aksayananda: To make the factory... We have made such a nice factory for fire, so we did not need to consult Bhagavad-gita for that.
Prabhupada: I do not follow what he is saying.
Harikesa: He’s saying he built a factory but he didn’t use Bhagavad-gita to do it.
Prabhupada: So who says that without Bhagavad-gita you cannot ignite fire?
Aksayananda: So why should we accept that the living entity will not die.
Prabhupada: Oh, that is authority. If you do not accept, then this is the example, argument. That the factory surrounded by fire, it does not mean there is no life. From distance, you are seeing the sun from a very, very, 95 or 93 million miles away. Fiery it is undoubtedly, but it is exactly like that: that you see from a distant place, the iron factory, it is simply fiery. Your experience is from distance. You have not gone there. So the distance experience is like this, that you see there is fire, big fire, but still there are life. You have to accept this argument.
Harikesa: Actually it is perfectly reasonable.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: In the fire there’s fiery bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: But then that must mean in the water there’s watery bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And earth, earthy bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is God’s creation. Take, take out one fish, within five minutes, he’ll die. And you put yourself in the water, within five minutes you will die. But you are living entity, he is also living entity. His external body is different, your external body is different.
Harikesa: But my body is ninety percent water.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Harikesa: My body is ninety per cent water. The scientists say that this material body is ninety percent water.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Human body. So I’ve got a watery body...
Prabhupada: Ninety percent water?
Harikesa: That’s what they say.
Prabhupada: They say. They are rascals. (laughter) So much bones and flesh and so many things, others. And ninety percent water.
Harikesa: Well, they take a cell and they say in the cell...
Prabhupada: "They take," they... Don’t quote them, they are all rascals. You come to your own reason. They say, then you accept them as authority. Then why don’t you accept authority of Bhagavad-gita, rascal? You are quoting some rascals and fools, and I am quoting from Bhagavad-gita. Then whose quotation is favorable? "They say." And when we say, "Krsna says," that is nothing! Just see, how foolish. "They say." These rascals, meat eaters, huh? Bachelor daddies, (laughter) they say something, that is authority. And (if) Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead says, (then) "Oh, that we cannot accept." Just see nonsense. That I... This argument I put forward with Professor Kotovsky that, "After all, we have to follow leader. So your leader is Lenin. And my leader is Krsna. So where is the difference between the process? You have to accept some authority. Now it is to be seen whether Lenin is perfect or Krsna is perfect. That is another thing, but you have to follow some authority. So you are stopped."
Harikesa: But in science...
Prabhupada: Again science.
Harikesa: No, as far as the process goes, they are very proud of the fact that there’s no authority.
Prabhupada: But why you are following? Why you are quoting Newton? You are quoting this scientist, that scientist, why you are quoting?
Harikesa: Well, Newton sat there, and saw the apple falling... Prabhupada: If you don’t follow authority, then why you quote so many previous scientists? What is the use of quoting if there is no authority?
Harikesa: But the trend is, because Newton speculated the law of gravity...
Prabhupada: No, no, first of all you settle up. Don’t go away from the point. (laughter) The point is that there is no need of authority. Then why you quote this scientist, that scientist? You stop this nonsense. There is no authority. Hm?
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Hamsaduta?
Hamsaduta: Hm.
Prabhupada: If there is no authority, why do you quote so many rascals? Then come to reason, argument, that’s all. If you quote authority, I have got my authority.
Harikesa: So this fire... That makes sense.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Harikesa: This fire, it makes sense. That there’s life in fire.
Prabhupada: Yes. This is argument. When you do not accept authority, there must be reason and argument.
Harikesa: But this ether thing is very troublesome.
Prabhupada: Troublesome for you! (laughter)
Harikesa: Yes. You said sound is in the ether.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: But I couldn’t understand how air...
Prabhupada: You have to gain that intelligence.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: Sound is the proof that there is ether. Sabda. Now, I am talking, you are hearing. How you are hearing? Ethereal transportation. Otherwise how you can hear? I am talking here, and why you are hearing? This is ethereal. The sound is being produced, somehow or other the ether is passing, just (like) tele... What is called? Radio.
Harikesa: They heard, people on the earth, talking on the moon.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: So it went through the air, it went through the space, sounds.
Prabhupada: The moon (astronaut) says that "There is no life." Then who is speaking? Nonsense. (laughter) They talk in the moon, and they hear from here, and "There is no life." And we have to take these authorities. (laughter)
Aksayananda: I remember once you said that we may not live in the water but that doesn’t mean there’s no such thing as a fish.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: So that is also a very good argument. I remember you gave that one.
Harikesa: So the air is coming from the ether, so...
Prabhupada: Because in the air there is sound. Therefore ether is there. It is a production of the ether.
Harikesa: So would it be beneficial to try to understand the process of production? Like the example of the earth coming from the water. Because the water evaporates, there is left over minerals and salts and all these things...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And the fire producing the water from excess heat. Like in the summer season and then the monsoon comes. And fire from air, from the friction generating electric current. But the air from the ether needs an example.
Prabhupada: Air from the ether because when the air blows, you find the sound, sshhhh. That is ether.
Hari-sauri: Yeah, like some...
Harikesa: But the example’s got to go the other way. From the ether comes the air.
Prabhupada: That you found out, example. But this is the proof there is ether within the air. That example is given many times in Bhagavad-gita.
Passerby: Haribol!
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna!
Hamsaduta: Does it mean beyond the ether there’s no sound?
Prabhupada: Beyond the ether there is mind, there is mind.
Hamsaduta: There’s no sound?
Prabhupada: No, what is the sound of the mind? Everyone knows you have mind, I have mind, but where is the sound of the mind?
Harikesa: There’s subtle and the gross has no realm in the subtle?
Prabhupada: Yes, that is finer.
Harikesa: So is that example of the space, then the thinner air, and the air, and the water, and the earth, and in between electricity...
Prabhupada: The grosser, grosser...
Harikesa: Is that a good example?
Prabhupada: Everything is coming from the subtle form, finer. Finer than the ether is the mind, and finer than the mind is intelligence.
Harikesa: Oh, and in the Bhagavatam it also says that because the universal form desired to hear, that sound was created and then the organ for hearing. Like that.
Prabhupada: That is also created.
Harikesa: So...
Prabhupada: Just like from ether, sound is created. Sabda, sparsa. Sabda, sparsa, rupa, rasa, gandhah, these are the five parmatra (?), object of sense perception. Budh, panca parmatra, ten senses, the mind, and three modes, the material nature. This is the ingredient of the whole creation.
Harikesa: So the basic element is the soul’s...
Prabhupada: Basic element is Krsna.
Harikesa: And then the spirit soul’s desire.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: And Krsna fulfills everyone’s desire.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: By manipulating the energy.
Harikesa: So the most subtle form...
Prabhupada: He is also... The living entity is creating different body for different enjoyment.
Hamsaduta: The living entity?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hamsaduta: But he can’t do it without Krsna.
Prabhupada: That is, he is subordinate.
Hamsaduta: Just like our hair grows, but we don’t know how it’s happening.
Prabhupada: It is sanctioned. Mattah sarvam pravartate. Everything from Krsna.
Harikesa: Is the most subtle form of creation the desire of the living entity to enjoy this material world?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: And then Krsna...
Prabhupada: Supplies ingredients. Yes.
Harikesa: So that desire, that is equivalent, or is that the...
Prabhupada: A child wants to play, and the father and mother gives the toys for that play. So without getting help from the father and mother, the child cannot enjoy. Similarly, we may desire but unless Krsna helps us we cannot fulfill our desire.
Harikesa: Is desire a function of consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes. Unless there is desire, how it is living? It is dead body. Stone, stone has no desire.
Harikesa: The spirit soul is...
Prabhupada: Therefore, spirit soul is described as superior energy. He desires and he manipulates the matter. Yayedam dharyate jagat.
Harikesa: It’s very logical, step by step by step by step. Actually when it’s seen from the point of view of the desire of the living entity, it makes perfect sense because he’s got these senses and the sound, and then in order to hear, there has to be a vehicle for the sound, and then there has to be an instrument. And then in order to touch there has to be the vehicle and the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: So therefore, from that point of view, it’s very logical.
Prabhupada: This is the point, you have to...
Harikesa: Trying to do it the other way is impossible. From the...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Empirical process?
Devotee: I don’t know if that’s the right word.
Harikesa: Inductive reasoning? Deductive reasoning. Impossible.
Prabhupada: Deductive reason is possible. Krsna says that na jayate na mriyate va. This is deductive: you hear from Krsna, and this is fact. And if you want to make research, how that living entity never takes birth, then it will take time and at the same it may not be perfect.
Harikesa: I finally understood why you were always talking to Svarupa Damodara about inductive and deductive reasoning.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Because it’s just not possible to go the other way.
Prabhupada: By inductive reason you cannot reach the truth perfectly.
Harikesa: Because it’s beyond the material creation and you have to use the material senses and mind to understand. It’s not possible.
Prabhupada: Therefore, our point is deductive. What Krsna says, that is perfect.
Harikesa: So first prove the existence of God and the existence of the spirit soul...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: ...and then, they’ll just have to explain...
Prabhupada: And then it’s creation.
Harikesa: And that it’s creation. They’ll just have to accept they have desires.
Prabhupada: Aham evasam evagre. This is the Bhagavata’s first instruction to Brahma. Aham evasam agre. Agre means in the beginning. So in the beginning Krsna was there, then creation took place. Similarly in the beginning of this body, "I am spirit soul," was there. Then the body comes out. Similarly, Krsna is there, therefore the whole cosmic manifestation has come about. Aham evasam agre. And at the end of the creation, Krsna is there. Similarly at the end of this body, I am there. Again I’ll create another body. This is going on.
Harikesa: It’s Krsna’s trick just to give us this facility.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Harikesa: This is Krsna’s trick just to give us facility.
Prabhupada: And because I wanted it. Krsna doesn’t want it. But because you are rascals we wanted it. Krsna (says,) "Alright, do it."
Harikesa: So therefore, in the beginning Krsna gives you the big post, Brahma.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Now you’re in charge of creating a whole universe.
Prabhupada: Yes. If you want lord it over, "Alright you become Brahma." He gives so much facility.
Harikesa: And then this Brahma creates so many different desires, and then he goes through all the different bodies.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Everyone becomes Brahma first?
Prabhupada: Hm? Yes. Or if you want to be a cat you can become.
Harikesa: How can they say this isn’t science? This is so incredible.
Prabhupada: Desire is there. Desire is there. Just like in your country, the nudism going on. The desire is, "Ah, I shall remain free, naked." So Krsna is giving you facility, "Alright, you stand here for thousands of years as tree, naked, nobody will criticize. You want to remain naked on the public street and you want to enjoy in that way, alright you become tree."
Harikesa: Because desire is a function of consciousness, which is a symptom of the spirit soul, it’s very powerful.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: Because it’s spiritual actually.
Prabhupada: Therefore it is said, anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11]. Abhilas means desire. Anya means "except service of Krsna." That is beginning of bhakti. As soon as he desires something material for enjoyment he has to come to Me. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. The mind and the senses; with these things he is struggling for existence. Otherwise he is part and parcel of Krs..., mamaivamso jiva-bhutah jiva-loka sanatana [Bg. 15.7]. He is eternal but because he is influenced by the mind, desires, and the senses, sense enjoyment, he is struggling. This is it, a struggle. So when he is too much fatigued, Krsna comes and gives you good counsel. "You rascal give up these all desires. Surrender to Me, I give you protection." But he’ll not do that. And if he agrees then anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11], all material desires, zero. Then bhakti begins. And if you have got a little pinch of material desires, then you have to accept different types of body. It will create, naturally. Karanam guna-sango ’sya. He is desiring under the influence of particular modes of nature, and he’s getting body.
Harikesa: One has to be very careful.
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bharata Maharaja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature’s law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you’ll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he’s not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you’ll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism. That is not humanism. Humanism means to follow the rules and regulations and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out from your home, immediately the law is keep to the right. And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn’t care. If you say, "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don’t obey then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they’re having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you’ll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain. Even if you like. Just like the Hawaii University students, "What is the wrong to become a dog?" So if you think like that then you become a dog, nature is ready to give you a dog’s body. That is (Sanskrit). He’s thinking, "The dog’s life is very nice. This liberation of sex life on the street." "Alright, you take dog’s body." Yam yam va... Bhavam... ah, what is that?
Harikesa: Smaran bhavam.
Prabhupada: Ha. Tyajanty ante kalevaram.
Caitya-guru: Tam tam evaiti kaunteya.
Prabhupada: Ha. "So you are thinking like dog, alright you take the body of a dog." And finished. Your human life is finished. And again wait for millions of years to come to the human form of life. Nature’s law you cannot check. Daivi hi esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya. The law is there. The same example, if you contaminate some disease, the law is you must suffer from that disease. So they are thinking "free." That is their gross ignorance.
Hari-sauri: It’s very important then to accept some tapasya.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hari-sauri: It’s very important to accept some tapasya to purify your desires.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, that is, that requires tapasya. Tapo divyam. Tapasya means to purify the desire. Tat paratvena nirmalam. Therefore if you simply keep your desires to the service of Krsna, you become purified.
Passerby: (singing) Govinda hari, gopala. Harer jaya jaya, prabhu dina dayala hari.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna!
Passerby: (carries on singing on his way) Govinda jaya, gopala jaya...
Prabhupada: This declaration of freedom is animal. Animal freedom.
Passerby: Hare Krsna, Hare Rama.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna! Thank you. They are struggling for false freedom. This is not freedom. This is becoming entangled. And when we voluntarily give up all freedom, "This is all nonsense! Krsna, I surrender unto you." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg. 7.19], then he’s really wise. When he fully surrenders to Krsna.
Caitya-guru: Then he knows, Vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19].
Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise how he’ll surrender. He must be convinced that Krsna is everything, so let me surrender to Krsna. Then he is wise. Otherwise he is an animal.
Harikesa: A really wise person could understand that there’s no choice but to surrender.
Prabhupada: Yes. He must. He is already under the control.
Harikesa: He’s always controlled at every moment.
Prabhupada: Yes. But he’s... He prefers to be controlled by the laws of nature instead of by Krsna. That is his misfortune. He is controlled, but he thinks, "I am free." That is ignorance. Mudha. Just like I am the state citizen. I am not free. I must work according to the state laws. But he (thinks), "I shall... I don’t care for government." That is my foolishness. You have to care. At home I can say to my wife, "I don’t care for government, I don’t care for the police." But when there is crime, when the police comes, then he says "Ohh." (pulls a sad face—laughter) He can be very much proud before his wife, "I don’t care for anything." But when the police comes, "What can I do?" (Hindi) There is an example that the, what is called, murgi? What you call? Toast? No. Host? No. What is called? Murgi, murgi? Chicken? The male, male?
Aksayananda: Rooster.
Hamsaduta: Rooster.
Prabhupada: Rooster?
Woman: Cock?
Prabhupada: Yes. So the, when in the morning, it is let loose, then he says, "I don’t care for any hahaa, cawcaw." Then in the evening, when they are pushed into the, that what is called? Nest? "Cawcawcawcaw. Whatever you like you can do, whatever you like you can do." (laughter) This is the example. You see? When he’s under the arrest, "Now sir, whatever you like, you do with me. If you like you can excuse me." (laughter) And when he’s out, "I don’t care for anyone." Murgi intelligence. Rooster intelligence. This is our proposal. "I don’t care for anyone. I am God." Murgi logic. Harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna mano rathenasati dhavato bahih [SB 5.18.12], if one is not a devotee, his only business is to remain on the mental platform and concoct things. And at the end he thinks that "I am God." Concoction. Therefore it is said in the sastra, harav abhaktasya kuto mahad-guna [SB 5.18.12]. One who is not a devotee, he has no good qualification. He is simply on the, hovering on the mental platform.
Hari-sauri: The sixteenth chapter describes it very nicely...
Prabhupada: Yes. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca, na vidur asurah. In which way we have direct out activities, in which way we shall have to stop our activities: they do not know. Asurah jana. Because they don’t take direction from God. They make their own way of speculation. So therefore, they are animals, or demons. Because they do not take direction during life, therefore at the end Krsna comes, mrtyuh sarva-haras caham. All mental speculation, creation, is taken away at death. (to passerby:) Hare Krsna! It is said, krsna nama koro vai ar sabe miche palaiba patha nai yama ache piche: take to Krsna consciousness, don’t try to escape. Because behind you there is Yamaraja! (laughs) He will finish your all concoction. Hare Krsna! (end)

The Urgent Need For Krishna Consciousness

The aim and objective of human life is self-realization and the reestablishment of our lost relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the missing point. This Krsna consciousness movement is trying to enlighten human society in this important matter.

According to Vedic civilization, the perfection of life is to realize one's relationship with Krsna or God. In Bhagavad-gita, which is accepted by all authorities in transcendental science as the basis of all Vedic knowledge, we understand that not only human beings but all living entities are parts and parcels of God. The parts are meant for serving the whole, just as the legs, hands, fingers and ears are meant for serving the total body. We living entities, being parts and parcels of God, are duty bound to serve Him.

Actually our position is that we are always rendering service to someone, either to our family, country or society. If we have no one to serve, sometimes we keep a pet cat or dog and render service to it. All these factors prove that we are constitutionally meant to render service, yet in spite of serving to our best capacity, we are no more satisfied. Nor is the person to whom we are rendering that service satisfied. On the material platform, everyone is frustrated. The reason for this is that the service which is being rendered is not properly directed. For example, if we want to render service to a tree, we must water the root. If we pour water on the leaves, branches and twigs, there is little benefit. If the Supreme Personality of Godhead is served, all other parts and parcels will be automatically satisfied. Consequently all welfare activities as well as service to society, family and nation are realized by serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

It is the duty of every human being to understand his constitutional position with God and to act accordingly. If this is possible, then our lives become successful. Sometimes, however, we feel challenging and say, "There is no God," or "I am God," or even, "I don't care for God." But in actuality this challenging spirit will not save us. God is there, and we can see Him at every moment. If we deny seeing God in our life, then He will be present before us as cruel death If we do not choose to see Him in one feature, we will see Him in another. There are different features of the Supreme Personality of Godhead because He is the original root of the entire cosmic manifestation. In one sense, it is not possible for us to escape Him.

This Krsna consciousness movement is not blind religious fanaticism, nor is it a revolt by some recent upstart, but it is an authorized scientific approach to the matter of our eternal necessity in relation with the Absolute Person alityof Godhead, the Supreme Enjoyer. Krsna consciousness simply deals with our eternal relation with Him and the process of discharging our relative duties to Him. Thus, Krsna consciousness enables us to achieve the highest perfection of life attainable in the present human form of existence.

We must always remember that this particular form of human life is attained after an evolution of many millions of years in the cycle of transmigration of the spirit soul. In this particular form of life, the economic question is more easily solved than in the lower animal forms. There are swine, dogs, camels, asses and so on whose economic necessities are just as important as ours, but the economic questions of these animals and others are solved under primitive conditions, whereas the human being is given all the facilities of leading a comfortable life by the laws of nature.

Human Duty

Why is a man given a better chance to live than swine or other animals? Why is a highly posted government officer given better facilities for a comfortable life than an ordinary clerk? The answer is very simple: the important officer has to discharge duties of a more responsible nature than those of an ordinary clerk. Similarly, the human being has to discharge higher duties than the animals, who are always busy with filling their hungry stomachs. But by the laws of nature, the modern animalistic standard of civilization has only increased the problems of filling the stomach. When we approach some of these polished animals for spiritual life, they say that they only want to work for the satisfaction of their stomachs and that there is no necessity of inquiring about the Godhead. Yet despite their eagerness to work hard, there is always the question of unemployment and so many other impediments incurred by the laws of nature. Despite this, they still denounce the necessity of acknowledging the Godhead.

We're not given this human form of life just to work hard like the swine or dog, but to attain the highest perfection of life If we do not want that perfection, then we will have to work very hard, for we will be forced to by the laws of nature. In the closing days of Kali-yuga (this present age) men will have to work hard like asses for only a scrap of bread. This process has already begun, and every year the necessity for harder work for lesser wages will increase. Yet human beings are not meant to work h ard like animals, and if a man fails to discharge his duties as a human being, he is forced to transmigrate to the lower species of life by the laws of nature. Bhagavad-gita very vividly describes how a spirit soul, by the laws of nature, takes his birth and gets a suitable body and sense organs for enjoying matter in the material world.

In Bhagavad-gita it is also stated that those who attempt but do not complete the path of approaching God, in other words, those who have failed to achieve complete success in Krsna consciousness, are given the chance to appear in the families of the spiritually advanced or in financially well-to-do mercantile families. If the unsuccessful spiritual aspirants are offered such chances of noble parentage, what of those who have actually attained the required success? Therefore an attempt to go back to Godhead, even if half finished, guarantees a good birth in the next life. Both the spiritual and financially well-to-do families are beneficial for spiritual progress because in both families one can get a good chance to make further progress from the point where he stopped in his previous birth. In spiritual realization the atmosphere generated by a good family is favorable for the cultivation of spiritual knowledge. Bhagavad-gita reminds such fortunate well-born persons that their good fortune is due to their past devotional activities. Unfortunately the children of these families do not consult Bhagavad-gita, being misguided by maya (illusion).

Birth in a well-to-do family solves the problem of having to find sufficient food from the beginning of life, and later a comparatively easier and more comfortable way of life can be led. Being so situated, one has a good chance to make progress in spiritual realization, but as ill luck would have it, due to the influence of the present iron age (which is full of machines and mechanical people) the sons of the wealthy are misguided for sense enjoyment, and they forget the good chance they have for spiritual enlightenment. Therefore nature, by her laws, is setting fires in these golden homes. It was the golden city of Lanka, under the regime of the demonic Ravana, that was burned to ashes. That is the law of nature.

The Bhagavad-gita is the preliminary study of the transcendental science of Krsna consciousness, and it is the duty of all responsible heads of state to chalk out their economic and other programs by referring to Bhagavad-gita. We are not meant to solve economic questions of life by balancing on a tottering platform, but we are meant to solve the ultimate problems of life which arise due to the laws of nature. Civilization is static unless there is spiritual movement. The soul moves the body, and the living body moves the world. We are concerned about the body, but we have no knowledge of the spirit that is moving that body. Without the spirit, the body is motionless or dead.

The human body is an excellent vehicle by which we can reach eternal life. It is a rare and very important boat for crossing over the ocean of nescience which is material existence. On this boat there is the service of an expert boatman, the spiritual master. By divine grace, the boat plies the water in a favorable wind. With all these auspicious factors, who would not take the opportunity to cross over the ocean of nescience? If one neglects this good chance, it should be known that he is simply committing suicide.

There is certainly a great deal of comfort in the first-class coach of a train, but if the train does not move toward its destination, what is the benefit of an air-conditioned compartment? Contemporary civilization is much too concerned with making the material body comfortable. No one has information of the real destination of life, which is to go back to Godhead. We must not remain seated in a comfortable compartment, but we should see whether or not our vehicle is moving toward its real destination. There is no ultimate benefit in making the material body comfortable at the expense of forgetting the prime necessity of life, which is to regain our lost spiritual identity. The boat of human life is constructed in such a way that it must move toward a spiritual destination. Unfortunately this body is anchored to mundane consciousness by five strong chains which are: (1) attachment to the material body due to ignorance of spiritual facts, (2) attachment to kinsmen due to bodily relations, (3) attachment to the land of birth and to material possessions such as house, furniture, estates, property, business papers, etc., (4) attachment to material science, which always remains mysterious for want of spiritual light, and (5) attachment to religious forms and holy rituals without knowing the Personality of Godhead or His devotees who make them holy. These attachments, which anchor the boat of the human body, are explained in detail in the Fifteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita. There they are compared to a deeply rooted banyan tree which is ever increasing its hold on the earth. It is very difficult to uproot such a strong banyan tree, but the Lord recommends the following process: "The real form of this tree cannot be perceived in this world. No one can understand where it ends, where it begins, or where its foundation is. But with determination one must cut down this tree with the weapon of detachment. So doing, one must seek that place form which, having once gone, one never returns, and there surrender to that Supreme Personality of Godhead from whom everything has begun and in whom everything is abiding since time immemorial." (Bg. 15.3–4)

Theories

Neither the scientists nor speculative philosophers have yet arrived at any conclusion concerning the cosmic situation. All they have done is posit different theories about it. Some of them say that the material world is real, others say that it is a dream, and yet others say that it is ever-existing. In this way different views are held by mundane scholars, but the fact is that no mundane scientist or speculative philosopher has ever discovered the beginning of the cosmosor its limitations. No one can say when it began or how it floats in space. They theoretically propose some laws, like the law of gravitation, but actually they cannot put this law to practical use. For want of actual knowledge of the truth, everyone is anxious to promote his own theory to gain certain fame, but the actual fact is that this material world is full of miseries and that no one can overcome them simply by promoting some theories about the subject. The Personality of Godhead, who is fully cognizant of everything in His creation, informs us that it is in our best interest that we desire to get out of this miserable existence. We must detach ourselves from everything material. To make the best use of a bad bargain, our material existence must be 100% spiritualized. Iron is not fire, but it can be turned into fire by constant association with fire. Similarly, detachment from material activities can be effected by spiritual activities, not by material inertia. Material inertia is the negative side of material action, but spiritual activity is not only the negation of material action but the activation of our real life. We must be anxious to search out eternal life or spiritual existence in Brahman. The eternal kingdom of Brahman is described in Bhagavad-gita as that eternal country from which no one returns. That is the kingdom of God.

The beginning of our present material life cannot be traced, nor is it necessary for us to know how we became conditioned in material existence. We have to be satisfied with the understanding that somehow or other this material life has been going on since time immemorial and now our duty is to surrender unto the Supreme Lord, who is the original cause of all causes. The preliminary qualification for going back to Godhead is given in Bhagavad-gita: "One who is free from illusion, false prestige and false association, who understands the eternal, who is done with material lust and is free from the duality of happiness and distress, and who knows how to surrender unto the Supreme Person, attains that eternal kingdom." (Bg. 15.5)

One who is convinced of his spiritual identity and is freed from the material conception of existence, who is free from illusion and is transcendental to the modes of material nature, who constantly engages in understanding spiritual knowledge and who has completely severed himself from sense enjoyment, can go back to Godhead. Such a person is called amudha, as distinguished from mudha or the foolish and ignorant, for he is freed from the duality of happiness and distress.

And what is the nature of the kingdom of God? It is described in the Bhagavad-gita as follows: "That abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, or by electricity. One who reaches it never returns to ths material world." (Bg. 15.6)

Although every place in the creation is within the kingdom of God because the Lord is the supreme proprietor of all planets, there is still the Lord's personal abode which is completely different from the universe in which we are now living. And this abode is called paramam, or the supreme abode. Even on this earth there are countries where the standard of living is high and countries where the standard of living is low. Besides this earth, there are innumerable other planets distributed all over the universe, and some are considered superior places and some are considered to be inferior places. In any case all planets within the jurisdiction of the external energy, material nature, require the rays of a sun or the light of fire for their existence because the material universe is a region of darkness. Beyond this region, however, is a spiritual realm which is described as functioning under the superior nature of God. That realm is described in the Upanisads thus: "There is no need of sun, moon, or stars, nor is that abode illumined by electricity or any form of fire. All these material universes are illumined by a reflection of that spiritual light, and because that superior nature is always self-luminous we can therefore experience a glow of light even in the densest darkness of night." In the Hari-vamsa the spiritual nature is explained as follows: "The glaring effulgence of the impersonal Brahman illuminates all existences, both material and spiritual. But, O Bharata, you must understand that this Brahman illumination is the effulgence of My body." In the Brahma-samhita this conclusion is also confirmed. We should not think that we can attain that abode by any material means such as space ships, but we should know for certain that one who can attain that spiritual abode of Krsna can enjoy eternal spiritual bliss without interruption. As fallible living entities, we have two phases of existence. One is called material existence, which is full of the miseries of birth, death, old age and disease, and the other is called spiritual existence, in which there is an incessant spiritual life of eternity, bliss and knowledge. In material existence we are ruled by the material conception of the body and the mind, but in spiritual existence we can always relish the happy transcendental contact of the Personality of Godhead. In spiritual existenoe, the Lord is never lost to us.

Conclusion

This Krsna consciousness movement is trying to bring that spiritual existence to humanity at large. In our present material consciousness, we are attached to the sensual material conception of life, but this conception can be removed at once by devotional service to Krsna or Krsna consciousness. If we adopt the principles of devotional service, we can become transcendental to the material conceptions of life and be liberated from the modes of goodness, passion and ignorance, even in the midst of various material engagements. Everyone who is engaged in material affairs can derive the highest benefit from these pages of Back to Godhead and the other literatures of this Krsna consciousness movement. These literatures help all people sever the roots of the indefatigable banyan tree of material existence. These literatures are authorized to train us to renounce everything related to the material conception of life and to relish spiritual nectar in every object. This stage is obtainable only by devotional service and nothing else. By rendering such service, one can at once get liberation (mukti) even during this present life. Most spiritual endeavors are tinged with the colors of materialism, but pure devotional service is transcendental to all material pollution. Those who desire to go back to Godhead need only adopt the principles of this Krsna consciousness movement and simply aim their consciousness at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, the Personality of Godhead, Krsna.

[From Back to Godhead No. 47]

Sakti & Saktimat

In the higher conception of life, just it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that everything is visualized as Brahman. Brahman means spiritual. So in the higher conception of life, one who has attained in the higher stage of spiritual realization, for him, there is nothing material. There is nothing material. The distinction of matter and spirit is this. Now, from the Bhagavad-gita we understand that two energies are working. One energy is called inferior energy, and the other energy is called superior energy. Now, take for example the inferior energy. The energy emanating from the source, is there any possibility of dividing the energy and the energetic? No. That is not possible just like you cannot divide heat from the fire or the illumination from this light. This is not possible.

If there is no illumination, then the light has no meaning. If there is no heat, then fire has no meaning. Similarly, if the energy is separated from the energetic, the energetic has no meaning.
So Krsna says that there are two kinds of nature: superior nature, or higher nature, and inferior nature. Now, even the inferior nature... We take it for granted that there is something like inferior nature. Of course, this material energy, the material nature, is called inferior nature—inferior in the sense that matter has got no incentive. Without touch of spirit, matter cannot work. Therefore it is understood that it is inferior. But in the higher sense it is not inferior. How it is not inferior? Because it is emanation from the Supreme and you cannot separate this energy from the Supreme, and there is no difference between the Supreme and His energy.

Sakti-saktimator abheda. This is the Vedic injunction. Sakti, sakti means energy, and saktimat, saktimat means the person who has got the energy. So abheda, they are nondifferential. You cannot differentiate between the energy and the energetic. Just like electric powerhouse. The energy is electricity. Now, from the electricity energy we are working so many things. So far our household affairs are concerned, by the same electric energy we are getting heat and we are getting also cold. In the refrigerator we see everything is cold. In the heater we find everything is hot, warm. But the same energy is working. So one who knows that this is the electrical energy that is working in a different way, for him, there is no superior or inferior. That is called jnana. If we are on the platform of knowledge, then there is no distinction between matter and spirit.

And that knowledge we have to acquire. How we have to acquire? We must know it definitely that everything that is manifested... In the Visnu-Purana there is a nice verse which describes this energy and the energetic very nicely:

eka-desa-sthitasyagner
jyotsna vistarini yatha
parasya brahmanah saktis
tathedam akhilam jagat

Akhilam jagat. Whatever we are seeing in this, in our presence, whatever we are seeing, they are nothing but different energies of the Supreme Lord.

And how they are acting? Just like the electric powerhouse is situated far away from your residential apartment, but from there the energy is being distributed and you are finding heat, cold, and so many things, electrically, you are working, so although the Supreme Lord is far, far away... Of course, He is not far, far away, but in our conception, in the material conception, because we cannot see... We are on a different planet. So by His energy He is not far away. Just like the sunlight, the sunshine, in the morning you find the sunshine is within your room, the sun is just within your room. It is actually. But still, the sun is 93,000,000 miles away from you. Similarly, in all circumstances we must understand that Krsna is, although far away from us, still, He is with us, within us. This is called knowledge. This is called knowledge.

And He says also in the Bhagavad-gita that sarvasya caham hrdi sannivistah: "I am situated in everyone’s heart." So just think how much nearest He is if He is sitting on my heart, and He is actually there, which is called Paramatma, or the Supersoul. So sarvasya, sarvasya means everyone’s, not only in human body, but in animal body, in the atoms also. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham. Paramanu means atom. He is situated. So practically, He is not far away. He is the nearest friend. He also claims in the Bhagavad-gita, suhrdam sarva-bhutanam: "I am the friend of everyone." So this knowledge, we have to acquire, that "We have got the greatest powerful friend in Krsna, and He is with me." This is knowledge.

[Morning Walk, 11-14-1975]

CHANTING, It enters through the ear and goes to the heart

Guest (1): When you chant, do you have to think what you’re saying? How can you do other things?

Prabhupada: Other things?

Guest (1): Well, many things require your concentration.

Prabhupada: Well, let us first of all chant the holy name. Then we shall think of concentration.

Guest (1): You see, two, two things... You can’t...

Prabhupada: No. Concentrate, concentration automatically. If I chant Hare Krsna and I hear, that is concentration. That is concentration. Immediately.

Guest (1): But you can’t read or talk to someone.

Prabhupada: There is no question of reading. We are simply asking to chant. Reading will come later on. Just like a small child, he’s taught... In our educational system they chant... What is that? That...? (Hindi) Pahara pahara.(?)

Indian man: Pahara. Alphabet. A.I.E.

Prabhupada: They chant. By chanting, by hearing they learn. “A,B,C,” like that. “2 plus 2 equal to 4.” We did it in our childhood. One boy will chant like that. “2 plus 2 equal to 4.” And we shall repeat. “2 plus 2 equal to 4.” So repeating three times, I understand 2 plus 2 equal to 4.

Guest (1): Do you find that the chant goes on in your heart?

Prabhupada: Huh?

Revatinandana: Do you find that the chant goes on in your heart?

Prabhupada: Why not? Why not?

Guest (1): It goes deeper and deeper?

Prabhupada: Yes. Everything we hear, it goes to the heart. If I call you by name, it does not go to my heart? “You rascal. You stupid.” You hear. Does it not go to my heart? Why I become angry unless it goes to my heart. If “rascal,” “stupid,” and all these bad names go to my heart, why God’s name will not go to my heart? If by calling you by ill names you become angry, that means it goes to your heart. Why not good name? It goes. It enters through the ear and goes to the heart.

Guest (1): I’m doing that, saying sometimes a little prayer...

Prabhupada: So if you repeatedly chant, it will remain. It will always remain in your heart.

Guest (1): Always going on.

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no chance of escape. Chant constantly, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. It remains in the heart. Not only my heart. Others’ heart, they also joke, “Hare Krsna!” If it can remain in others’ heart, why not my heart? Those who are joking me, imitating me. We... Last time, when I was going in Africa, I stopped for few minutes in Athens. Some of the younger residents chant, “Hare Krsna!” You see? As soon as they saw us, they began to chant Hare Krsna. They could understand, “These are Hare Krsna people.” Yes. So by their dress, by their tilaka, they oblige others to chant Hare Krsna, either for imitating or for joking. So they gain. But if Hare Krsna chanting has got any effect, even by joking like that, he’ll get gain. If it is actually spiritual, by simply joking he will get gain.

Revatinandana: In Manchester across the street from the temple there’s a big park. Sometimes I would go over there to walk and chant rounds, and there’s many little children in the park. They’d follow me, “Hare Krsna Hare Krsna!” All day. Hundred times.

Prabhupada: Everywhere. Everywhere. In Bombay, everywhere we go, “Hare Krsna.” In Montreal. They joke, they’ll clap, but they’ll chant. And that is wanted. I want to see that everyone is chanting. And if chanting has effect, then either he’s chanting jokingly or seriously it will have the effect. Fire, if you touch either jokingly or seriously or cautiously, it will act. So our request is that you also preach this cult. Let us cooperate. The whole world is suffering for want of God consciousness. So it is the duty of all religious sects to teach this simple art of chanting Hare Krsna or any other name which you have got. That’s all.

Revatinandana: They have got this prayer, “Lord Jesus have mercy on me, a miserable sinner.” And she was showing me they have a, almost like japa beads. Show him.

Guest (1): You see, here.

Revatinandana: They’re almost like japa mala.

Guest (1): We do it in some, together, in the orthodox church. And we take turns doing two hundred.

Prabhupada: That’s nice.

Guest (1): And... These are for counting.

Prabhupada: That is nice. We also do the same thing. We chant Hare Krsna.

Guest (1): “Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us.”

Prabhupada: Oh, what is the wording?

Guest (1): “Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us.”

Prabhupada: “Lord Jesus Christ, son of God...”

Revatinandana: “Have mercy on us.”

Guest (1): It’s a little prayer.

Prabhupada: That’s nice.

Guest (1): And they also pray to the mother of God.

Prabhupada: Sinful? “We are sinful?” You say, “sinful” something? “Forgive some sins” or something like?

Hamsaduta: “Lord Jesus Christ, son of God, have mercy on us.” That is the prayer.

Guest (1): And you say it in your own language.

Prabhupada: That’s all right. “Lord Jesus Christ, the son of God, have mercy on us.” That’s
nice. Very good.

Guest (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupada: That is nice. Now, the, by praying, it is expected that one should have mercy of
God. So what is the test that he has got the mercy of God?

Guest (1): The mercy of God is the love of God, isn’t it?

Prabhupada: That’s it. Mercy of... So... That is the test, that he has learned how to love God. Krsna-prema-pradaya te [Madhya 19.53]. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is also worshiped, that “You can give love of God.” Krsna prema-pradaya te. Namo maha-vadanyaya. “You are the most munificent of all incarnations because You are distributing love of God.” Krsna-prema-pradaya te [Madhya 19.53]. Krsnaya krsna-caitanya-namne. “You are Krsna in the form of devotee of Krsna. So I offer my respects.” This is Rupa Gosvami’s prayer.

Guest (1): Do you find that you chant, it clarifies you?

Prabhupada: Yes, certainly. God and God’s name, and God or God’s son, they are nondifferent. So either I be in touch with God’s son or God’s name, I am in touch with God. But they are nondifferent.

Guest (1): What happens to your mind? What do you do with your mind when you chant?

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be in my mind, it doesn’t matter. My mind may be different.

Guest (1): Where does it have to be? It has to be fixed?

Revatinandana: What will the mind be doing?

Hamsaduta: While chanting.

Revatinandana: What should the mind be doing?

Prabhupada: My mind should be absorbed in God consciousness. That is, that is the effect. He can think of God only, nothing else. That is the effect.

Guest (1): It’s very difficult to think of God.

Prabhupada: No. It is not difficult. It is difficult for the sinners. Those who are not sinners, it is not difficult. Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is said:

yesam tv anta-gatam papam
jananam punya-karmanam
te dvanda-moha-nirmukta
bhajante mam drdha-vratah

One can chant the holy name of the Lord if one is free from all sinful activities. A person who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. Therefore we ask our students, first discipline is that he must not have illicit sex life, he must not eat meat, he must not take any kind of intoxication, he must not indulge in gambling. Because these are sinful activities. So if one is engaged in these sinful activities, he cannot concentrate. It is impossible. One who is sinner, he cannot concentrate his mind on God. So voluntarily we should give up these sinful activities. Then it will be possible.

Who Is Crazy?

Now spiritualism, spiritualism means that we should identify ourself as God’s party. That’s all. That is spiritualism. They ask so many things, that, why the materialists are called crazy by the spiritualists? Oh, that is also partyism.

These materialists also call, say to the spiritualists, they are crazy. Just like we are, we have formed some Society of Krsna Consciousness, and, and those who do not like it, they say we are crazy fellows. We are assembly of crazy fellows. And, similarly, we call others who do not associate with us, they are crazy fellows. So there is, we have written pamphlet, booklet, “Who is Crazy?”. Now how to decide? You are thinking the Swamiji and the party, they are crazy. And we are thinking those who are materially engaged, they’re crazy. Now how to decide it? Can you suggest any way how to decide it, how, who is crazy?

Who will decide it? Everyone, two parties, when there is something disagreement, the two parties will say that, “You are in wrong,” the other party will say, “You are...” Now who will decide it? That who is wrong? Can you suggest any one of you who’ll decide? The world is going on in partyism and each opposite party is thinking that the other party is crazy. Now who will decide who is actually crazy? The actual... Then you have come to the point of reason, who is crazy?

Now just see. Take any common man. Not yourself, not myself. Any common man. If you ask him that, “What you are?”, he’ll say... His conception is that I am this body. Everyone will say. He’ll give you some description that, “I am Christian.” “I am Hindu.” “I am Mr. Such and Such.” “I am Mrs. Such and Such.” Everything, whatever he or she will say, that is all due to this body. All due to this body. Everyone. When you say, “You are American,” that means this is the body. Because by accident, by something, by some reason, you were born in this land of America. That is also another artificial name.

The land is neither America nor India. The land is land. But we give some designation, “This is America.” We make some boundary. This is United States of America. This is Canada. This is Europe, and this is Asia. This is India. So this is our name, but actually was there any history that the land is American, or the land...?

Say, four hundred years before, or five hundred years before, was this land was known as America? You have named it, America. Say, some thousands of years before was this, this, the continent which is known as, I mean, Europe, can you trace out history, that it was known as Europe? They are all designations.

Just like we can say from historical point of view of Vedic literature, this whole world was known as Ilavrta-varsa. Ilavrta-varsa. And, later on, since the reign of one great king, emperor, his name was Bharata. He changed the name into his own name, Bharata-varsa. So this whole planet was now Bharata-varsa. Then, as the days go on, the some part of this world was, I mean to say, separated from the original Bharata-varsa, and it was called Europe or some other place. Just like you have got practical experience even in this age, that India, say about twenty years before, the area of India was including Burma, Ceylon and the modern Pakistan and everything. Now it is separated. Now they are calling this is Pakistan. Somebody’s calling there is Ceylon. So this process is going on. Actually the land is neither Bharata-varsa, nor Asia, nor America, nor India, but we give this name. With the change of time, with the change of influence, they are all designations.

Fifty years before when some of you, of course, not all of you are fifty years old. Say, forty years before, or thirty-five years before, when you were, or twenty-five years before, when you were not born, can you say what was your designation? Were you American or Indian or Chinese or Russian, can you say? Say, after getting out of this body, do you think that you’ll continue as American or Indian or Chinese or Russian? Suppose you are now in America, in the land of America. So next life you may be in China. Who can say? Because we are changing our bodies, you cannot say that we are not changing our bodies. Can you say that you are not changing your body?

Yes, we are changing. When I was born, from the mother’s womb, my body was so little. Now how I have changed my...? Where is that body? Where is that body when I was a child? Where is that body when I was a boy? Where is that body when I was a young man? I have got my photograph, my studentship. Oh, Swamiji, you were like this? Where is that body? Where it has gone? So we are changing, but I am the same man. I am thinking, “Oh, in my childhood, I was doing like this. Oh, in my youthhood, I was thinking like this. In my boyhood, I did so many things.” Now where those days gone? If my body, everything has gone away? It is simply remembrance.

But still we are sticking to this body, and, when I ask you or when you ask me, “What you are?”, I say something in relationship with this body. Are you not crazy? Can you tell, any of you, that you are not crazy? If you, I mean to say, so far your identification, if you identify with something which you are not, then are you not crazy? Are you not crazy? So everyone who identifies with this body, he’s a crazy man. He’s a crazy man. It is a challenge to the world. Anyone who claims God’s property, God’s land, God’s earth, as own property, he’s a crazy man.

This is a challenge. Let anyone establish that this is his property, this is his body. You are simply, by nature, you are, by the fix of nature, you are put into some place. You are put under some body. You are put under some consciousness, and you are dictated by the laws of nature. And you are mad after that. So everyone,

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Prakrteh kriyamanani. Everyone is being pulled by the ear, just like a teacher takes to pull the ear of a student, and does like this...

Similarly, we, everyone of us under the complete clutches of the material nature, and we are being put, sometimes this body, sometimes that body. Now, fortunately, you have got human form of body.

Oh, but, don’t you see there are so many bodies? So many bodies. There are eight million, four hundred thousands of bodies, and, by the laws of nature, by the tricks of nature, you can be put into any kind of body according to your work. So you are completely under the grip of nature.

This time, fortunately or unfortunately, I have got this human form of life, but next time I may get the body of a dog or the body of a god. That will depend on my work. But the laws of nature is working. The laws of nature, or the material nature, is forcing me that you accept it. You cannot say that, after my death, let me have my birth in America. Oh, how can you say? You are not authority. You are not authority. So this is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

prakrteh kriyamanani
gunaih karmani sarvasah
ahankara-vimudhatma
kartaham iti manyate
[Bg. 3.27]

Everything is being conducted by the supreme laws of nature, but the foolish man thinks that I am something. I am independent. This is foolishness. Ahankara-vimudhatma. Ahankara, this false egoism—ahankara means false egoism. What is that false egoism? That I am not this body, and I think I am this body. This is called false egoism. Therefore Sankaracarya, I mean to say, he preached his mission that you are not this body. You are spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. Aham brahmasmi. Now, still, when we try to realize ourself, self-realization, there also foolishness, or the dictation of the maya, or illusory energy, continues.

What is that? Somebody’s trying to realize his self. I am not this body. He understands that I am not this body. I am spirit soul. Then? If you are spirit soul, then what is your position? Oh, void. Impersonal. Spirit soul, that means voidness? Oh, there is nothing after finishing this body? This voidness? There are philosophers who preach voidness. After this, finishing this body, there is nothing. And other philosophers, impersonalists, they say that, as soon as this body is finished, my personal identity is finished. Do you think like that? Is it possible? So long I am in this body, this body is not actual I am.

It is just like a vehicle. Just like you are sitting in a car. The car is moving according to your desire. Not that the car is moving independently. So when you are in the car, so you are moving the car according to your desire, right or left, or this road or that road. Suppose, if you are out of the car, do you think that your personality is gone? Is it any reason? So this body is just like a car.

It is said in the Bhagavad-gita, bhramayan sarva-bhutani yantrarudhani mayaya [Bg. 18.61]. Maya has placed you in this car because you wanted this sort of car. Just like you have got in your practical experience. Somebody has got better car, somebody has got, I mean to say, inferior car. Somebody has got truck. But they’re moving. Similarly, these different bodies, they are like cars, and they are moving. Now suppose you are out of the car, either from the truck or from the Rolls Royce car or Chevrolet car or Ford car, do you think that your personality is finished?

Because you are out of the car? Then how can you say that when you are out of this body, your personality is finished? What is your reason?

So this is another craziness. Just see how craziness follows. Void. Why void? I am so much intelligent. I am doing... I am planning so many. Because my body is finished, therefore everything becomes void? This void philosophy was contradicted by the (indistinct). There is no void. There is spirit.

Now, if that spirit, when one comes to that spiritual self-realization, out of this body, then, if he’s still further advanced in spiritual knowledge, then he’ll seek what is my spiritual duty? What is my spiritual work? That is sanity. What is my spiritual work. Sanity, that is sanity. I cannot be void. I cannot lose my individuality and personality. That is nonsense. How can I? So long I am sitting in this body...

Or take this same crude example. So long I am sitting on the car, I am displaying so much individuality, and so much discrimination. As soon as there is red signal, I stop my car. There is blue signal, green signal, I start my car. I’m using my consciousness. I’m working. And, simply by getting down from the car, I lose everything. I become void? What is this nonsense? No.

[Excerpt from a Lecture on Bhagavad-gita As It Is 9.34, 12-26-1966]

Creating Life In The Future

Karandhara: They say they will create life in the future.

Srila Prabhupada: What future? When this crucial point is raised, they reply, “We shall do it in the future.” Why in the future? That is nonsense. “Trust no future, however pleasant.” If they are so advanced, they must demonstrate now how life can be created from chemicals. Otherwise what is the meaning of their advancement? They are talking nonsense.

Karandhara: They say that they are right on the verge of creating life.

Srila Prabhupada: That’s only a different way of saying the same thing: “In the future.” The scientists must admit that they still do not know the origin of life. Their claim that they will soon prove a chemical origin of life is something like paying someone with a postdated check. Suppose I give you a postdated check for ten thousand dollars but I actually have no money. What is the value of that check?

Scientists are claiming that their science is wonderful, but when a practical example is wanted, they say they will provide it in the future. Suppose I say that I possess millions of dollars, and when you ask me for some money I say, “Yes, I will now give you a big postdated check. Is that all right?” If you are intelligent, you will reply, “At present give me at least five dollars in cash so I can see something tangible.” Similarly, the scientists cannot produce even a single blade of grass in their laboratories, yet they are claiming that life is produced from chemicals. What is this nonsense? Is no one questioning this?

Karandhara: They say that life is produced by chemical laws.

Srila Prabhupada: As soon as there is a law, we must take into consideration that someone made the law. Despite all their so-called advancement, the scientists in their laboratories cannot produce even a blade of grass. What kind of scientists are they?
Dr. Singh. They say that in the ultimate analysis, everything came from matter. Living matter came from nonliving matter.

Srila Prabhupada: Then where is this living matter coming from now? Do the scientists say that life came from matter in the past but does not at the present? Where is the ant coming from now—from the dirt?

The Missing Link

Dr. Singh: In fact, there are several theories explaining how life originated from matter, how living matter came from the nonliving.

Srila Prabhupada: [casting Dr. Singh in the role of a materialistic scientist]. All right, scientist, why is life not coming from matter now? You rascal. Why isn’t life coming from matter now? Actually such scientists are rascals. They childishly say that life came from matter, although they are not at all able to prove it. Our Krsna consciousness movement should expose all these rascals. They are only bluffing. Why don’t they create life immediately? In the past, they say, life arose from matter; and they say that this will happen again in the future. They even say that they will create life from matter. What kind of theory is this? They have already commented that life began from matter. This refers to the past—“began.” Then why do they now speak of the future? Is it not contradictory? They are expecting the past to occur in the future. This is childish nonsense.

Karandhara: They say that life arose from matter in the past and that they will create life this way in the future.

Srila Prabhupada: What is this nonsense? If they cannot prove that life arises from matter in the present, how do they know life arose this way in the past?

Dr. Singh: They are assuming...

Srila Prabhupada: Everyone can assume, but this is not science. Everyone can assume something. You can assume something, I can assume something. But there must be proof. We can prove that life arises from life. For example, a father begets a child. The father is living, and the child is living. But where is their proof that a father can be a dead stone? Where is their proof? We can easily prove that life begins from life. And the original life is Krsna. That also can be proven. But what evidence exists that a child is born of stone? They cannot actually prove that life comes from matter. They are leaving that aside for the future. [Laughter.]

Karandhara: The scientists say that they can now formulate acids, amino acids, that are almost like one-celled living organisms. They say that because these acids so closely resemble living beings, there must be just one missing link needed before they can create life.

Srila Prabhupada: Nonsense! Missing link. I’ll challenge them to their face! [Laughter.] They are missing this challenge. The missing link is this challenge to their face.

[from Life Comes From Life]

The Progress of the Asses

Srila Prabhupada: Everyone is suffering here in the material world, and scientific improvement means that the scientists are creating a situation of further suffering. That’s all.

They are not making improvements. Bhaktivinoda Thakura[6] confirms this by saying, moha janamiya, anitya samsare, jivake karaye gadha: “By so-called scientific improvements, the scientist has become an ass.” Moreover, he is becoming a better and better ass, and nothing more. Suppose that by working very hard like an ass, a person builds a skyscraper. He may engage in a lifelong labor for this, but ultimately he must die. He cannot stay; he will be kicked out of his skyscraper, because material life is impermanent.

Scientists are constantly doing research, and if you ask them what they are doing, they say, “Oh, it is for the next generation, for the future.” But I say, “What about you? What about your skyscraper? If in your next life you are going to be a tree, what will you do with your next generation then?” But he is an ass. He does not know that he is going to stand before his skyscraper for ten thousand years. And what about the next generation? If there is no petrol, what will the next generation do? And how will the next generation help him if he is going to be a cat, a dog or a tree?

The scientists—and everyone else—should endeavor to achieve freedom from the repetition of birth and death. But instead, everyone is becoming more and more entangled in the cycle of birth and death. Bhave ’smin klisyamananam avidya-kama-karmabhih. This is a quotation from Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.8.35). Here in one line the whole material existence is explained. This is literature.

This one line is worth thousands of years of research work. It explains how the living entity is taking birth in this world, where he comes from, where he is going, what his activities should be, and many other essential things. The words bhave ’smin klisyamananam refer to the struggle for existence. Why does this struggle exist? Because of avidya, ignorance. And what is the nature of that ignorance? Kama-karmabhih, being forced to work simply for the senses, or in other words, entanglement in material sense gratification.

Student: So, is it true that modern scientific research increases the demands of the body because the scientist is ultimately working to gratify his senses?

Srila Prabhupada: Yes.

[from Life Comes From Life]

He’s everywhere. That is Krsna

London, August 21, 1973

Prabhupada: ...hari-dhamasu tesu tesu te te prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena...
goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya
devi-mahesa-hari-dhamasu tesu tesu
te te prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.43]

Goloka-namni nija-dhamni. There is a planet in the spiritual world. The material world, you can see the material sky, limit of the sky, the horizon, but you are not able to reach even the moon planet, the nearest planet. But within this universe, within this horizon, there are innumerable planets. Asesa. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti kotisv asesa-vasudhadi vibhuti-bhinnam [Bs. 5.40]. By the shining effulgence from the body of Krsna... That is called brahmajyoti.

Within that brahmajyoti or effulgence there are innumerable universes. Ananta-koti. Yasya prabha prabhavato jagad-anda-koti [Bs. 5.40]. Koti means innumerable. One million, ten millions equal to one lakh. Such hundred lakhs makes a koti. So actually we see there are innumerable planets but beyond this creation, this is material creation, one-fourth manifestation, one-fourth manifestation of God’s creation, this, this material world... This is also only one universe. There are innumerable universes clustered together and beyond this clustering of universes there is another sky which is called paravyoma or spiritual sky. If you want to go there, then you have to penetrate through the material coverings—earth, water, fire, water, fire, air, like that. Each layer so big. And the next layer is ten times more than the first layer. In this way there are seven layers. So penetrating through that seven layers you reach the spiritual sky. And after reaching the spiritual sky, there are so many Vaikuntha planets, spiritual planets.

So that is summarized: goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43]. The topmost planet is called Goloka or Krsna, Krsnaloka. Go means cows. Krsna is very much fond of cows. Therefore, that planet is called also Goloka, the planet full of cows. We have recited Brahma-samhita today, cintamani-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vrksa-laksa-vrtesu surabhir abhipalayantam [Bs. 5.29]. Krsna is engaged in tending cows. He’s very much fond of cows. Surabhi, they are not ordinary cows. In the spiritual world, everything is spiritual. So there is a planet, goloka-namni. So, that is the highest planet. Goloka-namni nija-dhamni. That is the personal abode. Goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya: [Bs. 5.43] under that planet, there are other planetary systems. They are called Devidhama, Mahesadhama, Haridhama.

Now this universe, this material world is called Devi-dhama. Devi-dhama. It is under the control of the material energy. Srsti-sthiti-pralaya-sadhana-saktir-eka chhayeva yasya bhuvanani vibharti durga [Bs. 5.44]. This energy is also personified called Durgadevi. So above this planetary system there is Mahesa-dhama. Mahesa-dhama. In the border between spiritual sky and material sky. Above that, there are Hari-dhama, the Vaikuntha planets where Narayana, in various forms is predominating. And above all of them there is Goloka-dhama or Krsna’s dhama. So picture we have given in the Srimad- Bhagavatam. So goloka-namni nija-dhamni tale ca tasya [Bs. 5.43], devi- mahesa-hari-dhamasu tesu tesu, te te prabhava-nicaya vihitas ca yena. Each planetary system has got specific atmosphere. Everything is specific. So that is done, that is created by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in this way, Krsna is there in the topmost Goloka-dhama. But still goloka-dhamni nivasati, although He is living there, akhilatma-bhuto, He is everywhere. He’s everywhere. That is Krsna.

Just like we are sitting in this hall. We are not in our apartment house. Krsna is not like that. He is in the goloka-namni nija-dhamni, in His own planet, He’s engaged in His occupation. Somewhere He’s tending cows, somewhere He’s dancing with the gopis. He is going on with His enjoying occupations. But still He’s everywhere. Goloka-namni, goloka eva nivasaty [Bs. 5.37]. Nivasaty means although He’s living there, akhilatma bhutah. He’s everywhere. He’s within your heart. Isvara sarva bhutanam hrd-dese ’rjuna tisthati. He’s within your heart. Not only within the heart, He is within the atom also. Eko ’py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim yac-chaktir asti jagad-anda caya yad-antah andantara-stha- paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35].

His one plenary portion has entered this material world as Garbhodakasayi Visnu. From Garbhodakasayi Visnu, there is expansion of Ksirodakasayi Visnu. That Ksirodakasayi Visnu has entered every atom. Eko ’py asau racayitum jagad-anda-kotim yac-chaktir asti jagad-anda-caya yad- antah [Bs. 5.35]. So Krsna is everywhere, and if you are devotee, then you can catch Him. This is the secret. Just like electricity is everywhere, electrons. One who can tackle the electrons, they can talk without any direct connection by electronic method, thousand thousand miles away. Just like radio message, television message. So similarly, Krsna is also everywhere. Just like the waves of sound wave is going on. As soon as you produce, I produce one sound, immediately within a second the sound goes round the earth seven times. So if a material thing has got so much power, just think how much power God has got. So He is everywhere. Simply you have to catch Him. And He’s also ready for being caught. Yes. If somebody wants to catch Him... Suppose you are a devotee. If you want to catch Him, He comes forward ten times than your desire. He’s so kind. Therefore, we have to simply receive Him.

So this Deity worship in the temple means worshiping Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He’s akhilatma-bhutah [Bs. 5.37]. Where you shall find Him? He’s everywhere. Therefore, He has very kindly accepted to assume a form which you can handle. This form of Krsna, the atheist will say that “Here is a form made of marble. How is that they are worshiping God, Krsna?”

That is atheist view. But from the sastra, we understand Krsna, if He is within the atom, why not within the marble? It is simply understanding. Not only within, the marble itself is also Krsna. Because in the Bhagavad-gita we understand: bhumir apo ’nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca. These material elements, earth, earth, water, fire, air, they are Krsna’s energy. Krsna says bhinna me prakrtir astadha. They are My energies, separated energy. So even if you consider that here is not Krsna but a marble. No, that marble is also Krsna. Marble is also... And Krsna is, being omnipotent, even for your logical argument... Even if you say that this is a marble statue, still Krsna is so powerful, omnipotent, that He can accept your service even through this marble.

Actually, it is not marble. Or from spiritual vision, everything being Krsna, so Krsna can accept your service even through the marble, even through the water, even through the fire. Why not? Energy. Just like if you come to the sunshine, energy of sun, you immediately touch the sun globe. Is it not? Because the beams are coming from the sun globe so as soon as you touch the sunshine, sunbeam, you touch the sun immediately. And there are yogis who can reach the sun planet through the beams of sun. Because the spirit soul is very, very small. Smaller than the atom. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca [Cc. Madya 19.140].

And the spirit soul can go everywhere. And it is, the speed of spirit soul is greater than the mind. You have got experience of the speed of the mind. In a second you can go many thousands of miles. Mind. Suppose you are sitting here, those who are Indians, immediately, within a second, one can reach Calcutta, Bombay. Immediately, without even, less than a second’s time. The mind’s speed, you can imagine. And finer than the mind is the spirit soul. So how much speedy is the spirit soul, that we have to know from the sastras. Sastra yonitvat. Everything.

Therefore do not think that we have installed a marble statue. The rascals will say “They are heathens.” No. We are worshiping Krsna personally. Krsna personally, Krsna has kindly assumed this form just... Because we cannot see Krsna, the gigantic Krsna, or Krsna is everywhere... Atah sri- krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [BRS. 1.2.234]. Our imperfect senses cannot see Krsna immediately. But Krsna is so kind, as we can see... We can see stone, we can see wood, we can see earth, we can see water, we can see color. Therefore, Krsna comes before us just quite suitable for our vision. But He’s Krsna. So this Deity worship, those who are in charge of Deity worship, they never should think that here is a statue.

No. Here is Krsna. The honor, the respect, the samra (indistinct), means with great honor... You must always think that here is Krsna personally. Don’t think that it is statue. Krsna personally. So you should honor and think also and be cautious so that you may not commit offense. Krsna worship, if you neglect the process, then it will be offensive. There are sixty-four kinds of offenses. You have seen it in The Nectar of Devotion. So not very much... You should be very much clean, first thing is. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Very much clean, rise early in the morning, take your bath and perform mangala aratrika, then chant Hare Krsna mantra, then read scriptures. In this way remain twenty-four hours engaged in Krsna’s service.

This is the purpose of installing Deity. Not that after few days you think it is a burden. No, then it will be great offense. It is not burden. It is a great opportunity to serve Krsna. As the gopis are serving in Goloka Vrndavana. Krsna is so kind. He has come here to accept your service in a manner in which you can handle Him. You can dress Krsna, you can offer prasada, you can chant His glory. In this way, always remain engaged in Krsna consciousness and gradually you’ll find how you are advancing in spiritual life. Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

What is this consciousness?

What is this consciousness? This consciousness is “I am.” Then what am I? In contaminated consciousness “I am” means “I am the lord of all I survey. I am the enjoyer.” The world revolves because every living being thinks that he is the lord and creator of the material world. Material consciousness has two psychic divisions.

One is that I am the creator, and the other is that I am the enjoyer. But actually the Supreme Lord is both the creator and the enjoyer, and the living entity, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, is neither the creator nor the enjoyer, but a cooperator. He is the created and the enjoyed. For instance, a part of a machine cooperates with the whole machine; a part of the body cooperates with the whole body. The hands, feet, eyes, legs and so on are all parts of the body, but they are not actually the enjoyers. The stomach is the enjoyer. The legs move, the hands supply food, the teeth chew and all parts of the body are engaged in satisfying the stomach because the stomach is the principal factor that nourishes the body’s organization. Therefore everything is given to the stomach.

One nourishes the tree by watering its root, and one nourishes the body by feeding the stomach, for if the body is to be kept in a healthy state, then the parts of the body must cooperate to feed the stomach. Similarly, the Supreme Lord is the enjoyer and the creator, and we, as subordinate living beings, are meant to cooperate to satisfy Him. This cooperation will actually help us, just as food taken by the stomach will help all other parts of the body. If the fingers of the hand think that they should take the food themselves instead of giving it to the stomach, then they will be frustrated.

The central figure of creation and of enjoyment is the Supreme Lord, and the living entities are cooperators. By cooperation they enjoy. The relation is also like that of the master and the servant. If the master is fully satisfied, then the servant is satisfied. Similarly, the Supreme Lord should be satisfied, although the tendency to become the creator and the tendency to enjoy the material world are there also in the living entities because these tendencies are there in the Supreme Lord who has created the manifested cosmic world.

from the introduction to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is

In this way you practice one mantra daily

Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.
Prabhupada: Now read again.
Pradyumna: Whole thing?

Prabhupada: No, this same verse. Practice it. In this way you practice one mantra daily. Each mantra will purify you hundred yards daily. Go forward.

These mantras are very powerful, given by Vyasadeva Gosvami, vibrated. And spoken by... Suka-mukhad drava-samyutamrtam. That is explained in the beginning. Just like a ripened fruit in the tree is already very sweet, and if it is touched by the beak of the parrot, it becomes sweeter. These are natural course.

If the parrot touches the fruit, he cuts little by his beak, beak. Beak, you call beak? Then it becomes still sweeter. Suka-mukhad drava-samyutam. Similarly, Srimad-Bhagavatam is already sublime, transcendental. And when it is spoken through the mouth of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweet, just like the fruit.

The parrot is also called suka. It is called suka-paksi, suka bird. So this comparison is given. As the fruit becomes still sweeter by the touch of the beak of the parrot, similarly, Sukadeva Gosvami, because it is already spoken by Vyasadeva, ripened fruit, the experienced contribution of Vyasadeva, all the Vedic literatures, but when it is spoken through the parampara system of Sukadeva Gosvami, it becomes still sweeter.

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended to study Srimad-Bhagavatam from bhagavatam. Bhagavata para giya bhagavata sthane. Bhagavata means the grantha-bhagavata, book bhagavata... Bhagavata means about Krsna. Bhagavan is Krsna. And anything in relationship with Krsna is called Bhagavata. So the devotee is also in relationship with Krsna. He is also called bhagavata. Maha-bhagavata. Those who are highly advanced, or first-class devotees, they are called maha-bhagavata. So this Bhagavatam, it is the essence of the Vedic knowledge and when it is received through the parampara system of pure devotee, then it becomes still more sweet than before. That is the purport.

So we should try to learn, get it by heart, at least one sloka, two slokas in a week. And if we chant that... Just like you are chanting so many songs, similarly, if we chant one or two verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam, that will make you very quickly advanced for spiritual realization. We are therefore taking so much trouble to get this transliteration, the meaning, so that the reader may take advanced step, full advantage of the mantra. It is not that to show some scholarship, that “I know so much Sanskrit.” No. It is just offered with humility to learn the mantra because one who will chant the mantra...

They are all transcendental vibration. Just Hare Krsna mantra... This is maha-mantra, but they are also mantras, all the verses from Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, spoken by Krsna, spoken by... Bhagavata also, spoken by Krsna. Vyasadeva is incarnation of Krsna. They’re also mantras, infallible instructions. So try to get it by heart, chanting. Either you chant by seeing the book or get it by heart, it is all the same. But try to chant one, two slokas daily. Chant.

Pradyumna: (chants with devotees responding)
sri suka uvaca
atma-mayam rte rajan
parasyanubhavatmanah
na ghatetartha-sambandhah...

Prabhupada: (correcting) Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that. It is written like that?
Pradyumna: Ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Prabhupada: artha, artha separated?
Pradyumna: No. Together. Ghatetartha.
Prabhupada: No. Ghatetartha-sambandhah. It should, should not be.
Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Like that.
Ta should be long. Ta.
Ghateta artha-sambandhah.
Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Is that all right?

Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupada: So pronounce like that.
Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Prabhupada: Loud. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Pradyumna: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Prabhupada: Yes. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Devotees: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah.
Pradyumna: Svapna-drastur ivanjasa.
Prabhupada: Oh. Again pronounce.
Pradyumna: Sri suka uvaca (repeats verse)
Prabhupada: Very important verse. Now we shall go to the words and meaning. Again recite. Sri suka uvaca.
Devotees: (repeat verse)
Prabhupada: Once again. Do it again.
Pradyumna: (repeats verse)
Prabhupada: Again. (devotees repeat verse again) Anyone can recite? All right. See the book and recite.
Syamasundara: Sri-suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.
Prabhupada: Parasya. The transliteration is the long a. You have seen? You just try to follow the transliteration. That will be easier.
Syamasundara: Parasyanu...
Prabhupada: Parasyanubhava, bhavatmanah. Atma.
Syamasundara: Yes. Long a over a. Atmanah.
Prabhupada: Yes. Now, beginning.
Syamasundara: Parasyanu...
Prabhupada: No. First line. (devotees repeating)
Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah.
Prabhupada: Read it again.
Syamasundara: Sri suka uvaca atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanubhavatmanah na ghatetartha...
Prabhupada: Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. Next. Next. You read. Go on. One after another. (continues devotee reciting, Prabhupada correcting) You read the transliteration. The thing is hearing the meter and repeat. That’s all. The writing is already there, transliteration. Simply you have to hear the written. Just like you have chanted so many verses, songs, by hearing. The hearing is very important.

A child learns another language simply by hearing, pronunciation, hearing. That is natural. If we hear one thing repeatedly, you will learn. You will learn. So one has to hear little attentively. Then it will be easy. There is no difficulty. Just like you are singing our song in tune, (sings) samsara-davanala-lidha-loka **. This is by hearing.

So simply you have to hear. Therefore whole Vedic sastra is called sruti. It is a process of hearing. (coughing) This is a disease of old age. These are the warnings that the body is getting rotten. Go on. (recitation continues) Next. Each one of you. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah svapna-drastur ivanjasa. What is the anjasa spelling?
Devotee: I-v-a-n-j-a-s-a. Ivanjasa.
Prabhupada: Long a or short a?
Devotee: Long a.
Prabhupada: Yes. Ivanjasa. Anjasa. Anjasa means wholesale. Go on. (recitation and corrections continue) Na ghateta artha sambandhah, combined together it becomes na ghatetartha-sambandhah. Tartha. What is the spelling? Tartha?
Devotee: T, long a, r-t-h-a.
Prabhupada: Of tha? What is the...?
Devotee: T-a-r-t-h-a. Na ghata...
Prabhupada: T-h-a. There must be r.
Pradyumna: Yes. Ghatetartha. G-h-a-t-e-t-a-r...
Prabhupada: T-a-r. Yes. T-a, artha. So you were missing that r. Na ghatetartha-sambandhah. All right. Next. (recitation continues) Get it next. Come here.

So you have to study like that. So many slokas, I am taking so much labor. If you do not read it carefully... It is not for that I am making business, for selling only, and not for my students. You must all read like this, practice.

Why so much trouble is being taken, word to word meaning and then transliteration? If you chant this mantra, that vibration will cleanse the atmosphere. And wherever you go, in any part of the world, if you can chant this mantra, oh, you’ll be received like God. It is so nice. And in India he’ll actually receive like Gods if you chant this mantra. They will so offer their respects, so many. Veda-mantra. Next chant. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Next, next. Bhanu prabhu (Bhanu recites) Thank you very much. He has pronounced very nicely.

So he will teach you. Yes. Next. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. (another devotee recites verse) Very good. Yes. In this way, each one of you, you chant and others will follow. Then one or two days, you get the sloka by heart. You can chant. It is not difficult. Now read the word meanings and translation.

Karandhara: “Sri-sukah uvaca—Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said; atma— the Supreme Personality of Godhead; mayam—the energy; rte— without; rajan—O King...”
Prabhupada: Rajan.
Karandhara: Rajan—O King.
Prabhupada: It is address, addressing. Nominative is raja and addressive is rajan. Go on.
Karandhara: Parasyasya...
Prabhupada: Parasya.
Karandhara: Parasya.
Prabhupada: Parasya. Yes.
Karandhara: “Parasya—of the pure soul; anubhava-atmanah— of the purely conscious; na—never; ghateta—it can so happen; artha— meaning; sambandhah—relation with the material body; svapna— dream; drastuh—of the seer; iva—like it; anjasa—completely.”
Prabhupada: Anjasa.
Karandhara: “Anjasa—completely. Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working.”
Prabhupada: So, purport?
Karandhara: “Purport. The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind.”
Prabhupada: It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired... Many people inquired that “How the living entity was with Krsna, he became fallen in this material world?” Is not done? This question is raised? So this question is answered here, that “How the living entity who was with Krsna became fallen down in contact with this material qualities?” So this is the answer. Read the translation.
Karandhara: “Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O king, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead...”
Prabhupada: It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing. Actually he has not fallen. Another example given is given. Just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupada: Actually the moon is not moving. It is a maya, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. But similarly, the living entity, because he is spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking, “I am fallen. I am material.” That is the reason. He is thinking, “I am this body.” Actually the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying. But I am the same. The same example, the moon: The cloud is passing over in different way.

The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving. [break] Try to understand. Have questions and answer. It is very important thing. Atma-mayam rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krsna. This illusory energy develops when we forget Krsna. That’s all. It is... In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. We wanted to forget, we wanted to give up Krsna and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krsna is giving us...

Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that “I am king,” then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that “I am Karandhara,” then you cannot play nicely king. Is it not? Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that “I am king.”

You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. But if you think simultaneously that “I am Karandhara. I am taking, playing the part of the king,” then you cannot play. So because we wanted to play the part of Krsna, enjoyer, Krsna is giving us chance that “You feel like Me.”—“I am king. I am Krsna. I am God.” (laughter)

All these rascals, those who are feeling like that, “I am master. I am king. I am Krsna. I am God,” they are all simply in that feeling only. That’s all. And this feeling is created by Krsna: “All right. You want to play the part of a king. I shall train you in such a way.” Just like director means, dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.

Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-lila. I introduced. And one big director, Amrtalal Chosa, he was just like grandfather. He was one of the, just like in England Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrtalal Chosa and Girish Chandra Chosa, they introduced in India theatric... So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that “You feel like that,” especially to me. “You feel like that.” So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with...

But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice. So similarly, we are... Actually we have nothing to do with this material world, But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking, “I am Indian. I am American. I am this. I am that. I am brahmana. I am sudra. I have to do this. I have got so much duty,” all these illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious. “I have to do like that. I have to do like that. I am this. I am that.” That’s all. That is explained. Atma-mayam rte rajan: “Except the influence of that atma-maya, the illusory energy of Krsna...” Atma-maya. Read. Atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanu. Read it?

Karandhara: Parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: Parasyanubhavatmanah. Na ghateta artha-sambandha. There cannot be any relation at all. Na ghateta. Cannot be. Artha sambandhah. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. The very exact example is given, svapna-drastuh. Just like a man seeing dream: “Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!” He is crying. Another man is, “Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?” But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling: “The tiger has attacked me.”

Therefore this example is given, na ghatetartha-sambandhah. There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by dream. Actually there is no tiger. Similarly we have created this material world and activity. People are running, “Oh..., sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh, sonh,” identifying that “Oh, I am the manager. I am the factory owner. I am this, I am that. We have got his politics. We have to defeat such competitors.” All these things are created exactly like that, svapna-drastur ivanjasa, just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That’s all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you that “When one has become in contact with this material nature?” He has not become in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy. Just like the same example: A man is dreaming; there is no contact with tiger. Actually he has no contact with that.

Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become... Try to understand understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: “All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this. People will applaud. ‘Oh, a very nice king, very nice.’ ”

That is the... So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted, “I want to be prime minister.” “All right.” “I want to become very big business magnate.” “I want to be leader.” “I want to be a philosopher.” “I want to be a scientist.” So all this nonsense, they are trying to play—Krsna is giving him the opportunity: “All right.” But it is a nonsense, all nonsense. Simple dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished.

No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking, “I am a responsible leader, I am this, I am that.” But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these are (indistinct) gone.

Sarva-haras caham. The death means... Krsna says, “I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone.” Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhrgu-samhita it was ascertained. They said—I do not know—that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sins, like that.

He explained me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. So what do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is all...? All gone. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. As soon as we understand that, “I have nothing to do with. I am simply Krsna’s servant. Eternal servant. That’s all,” immediately he becomes liberated.

Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream when it becomes intolerable. Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. “Oh, Krsna is my eternal master. I am His servant.” That’s all. This is the way. Actually we are not fallen.

There cannot be any fallen. The same example: Actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.

Karandhara: “The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life.”
Prabhupada: Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?
Karandhara: “But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva’s realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy.”

Prabhupada: Krsna says, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te: [Bg. 7.14] “As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion.” Mayam etam taranti. Immediately. So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words The Mayavadis, they are undergoing austerities or penances just to become liberated. Yogis, they are also trying to become one.

So many endeavors are going on. But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen, “It was illusion. I was dreaming. I am Krsna’s,” finished. All gone. “I am Krsna’s. I am Krsna’s eternal servant.

These are all nonsense”—he immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. There is no Is there any difficulty to understand?

Just see how important this verse. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day, hundred yards forward, hundred yards forward, yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. Then read the purport.

Karandhara: “The external energy is controlled by the Lord and the living entities are controlled by the external energy by the will of the Lord. Therefore, although the living entity is purely conscious in his pure state, he is subordinate to the will of the Lord, being influenced by the external energy of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gita also the same thing is confirmed, that the Lord is present within the heart of every living entity and all consciousness and forgetfulness of the living entity are influenced by the Lord.”

Prabhupada: Yes. Because... Now, people may say that, “Why Krsna within the heart gives one type of consciousness to one, and another type of consciousness...?” Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna is giving consciousness: “All right, you can forget Me in this way.” That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krsna is giving him intelligence. “All right. You forget Me like this.” That’s all.

Go on. And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krsna will give you intelligence. Buddhi-yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: “I shall give intelligence.” So Krsna is... Ye yatha mam prapadyante. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. Go on.

Karandhara: “Now the next question will automatically be made as to why the Lord influences the living entity to such consciousness and forgetfulness. The answer is that the Lord clearly wishes that every living entity be engaged in his pure consciousness as the part and parcel of the Lord, and thus be engaged in loving service of the Lord as he is constitutionally made. But because the living entity is partially independent also, he may not be willing to serve the Lord, but may try to become independent as the Lord is. The whole nondevotee class of living entities are all desirous of becoming equally as powerful as the Lord, although they are not fit to become so. The living entities are...”

Prabhupada: They will never be God, but we see so many persons. By the influence of the illusory energy they think, “I am God. I am God. I shall become God by pressing my nose like this, doing this.” So this is going on.

They will never be able. That is not possible. Otherwise, there is no meaning of God. If everyone can become God, then there is no meaning of God. But by influence of... Just like karmis are saying “I shall become millionaire. I shall become trillionaire. I shall become head of the state. I shall become prime minister.”

This struggle, this is another struggle: “I shall become God.” This is another struggle. But it is illusion. It is illusion. So Krsna gives them opportunity, some yogic success. Just like in India there is a rascal. He makes like that, and there is immediately some gold. And people become after him: “Oh, he is God. He is God.” By producing a little gold, he becomes God.

Another yogi, he gives immediately two rasagulla. So by producing two rasagulla, four annas’ worth, he becomes God. You see? This is illusion. These rascals, they do not know that, “What is this rasagulla, two rasagulla? I can purchase from the market for four annas. So he is becoming God by four annas?” But they have no sense. “Oh, he is God.

He can produce rasagulla.” Rasagulla I can produce in our kitchen. But they are so rascal. “Oh, wonderful.” So the yogic siddhis... So Krsna gives him some power of yogic siddhi and he thinks that “I have become God,” and some flatterers, they also think, “Oh, you are God.”

The same dream. And as soon as death comes, everything finished, your Godhood and everything finished. Now becomes doghood, come to the stage of doghood. Again, another dream: “I am dog.” First of all “I am God,” then next stage, “I am dog.” This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Thakura said, keno mayar bose jaccho bhese’: “Why you are being washed away by the waves of maya? Just fix up. Stand up.” Jiv krsna-das ei viswas korle to ar duhkho nai. You simply remain fixed up on this standpoint, that, “I am eternal servant of Krsna.” Then there is no more dream. And if you allow yourself to be washed away, Krsna gives you facility, “All right, come on. Be washed away.” Then?

Karandhara: “The living entities are illusioned by the will of the Lord because they wanted to become like Him.”
Prabhupada: Yes.
Karandhara: “As a person thinks of becoming a king without possessing the necessary qualifications, similarly, when the living entity desires to become the Lord Himself, he is put in a condition of dreaming that he is a king.

Therefore the first sinful will of the living entity is to become the Lord, and the consequent will of the Lord is that the living entity forgets his actual life and thus dreams of the land of utopia where he may become one like the Lord. The child cries to have the moon from the mother and the mother gives the child a mirror to satisfy the crying and disturbing child with the shadow of the moon.

Similarly the crying child of the Lord is given over to the shadow of the material world to lord it over as a karmi and to give this up in frustration to become one with the Lord. Both these stages are dreaming illusions only. There is no necessity of tracing out the history when the living entity desired this, but the fact is that as soon as he desired such, he was put under the control of atma-maya by the direction of the Lord.

Therefore the living entity in his material condition is dreaming falsely that this is ‘mine’ and this is ‘I.’ The dream is that the conditioned soul thinks of his material body as ‘I’ or falsely thinks that he is the lord and that everything in connection with the material body is ‘mine.’ Thus in dream only the misconception of ‘I and mine’ persist life after life. This continues life after life as long as the living entity is not purely conscious of his identity as the subordinate part and parcel of the Lord. In his pure consciousness, however, there is no such misconceived dream. And in that pure conscious state the living entity does not forget that he is never the Lord, but he is eternally the servitor of the Lord in transcendental love.”

Prabhupada: That’s all.

Devotees: All glories to you Srila Prabhupada. (offer obeisances)

Trivikrama: Srila Prabhupada? You were just saying that we are not fallen. Actually this is an illusion thinking that we are fallen. Yet I read...

Prabhupada: The same example. In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, “Oh, tiger is there.” It is simply dreaming condition.

Trivikrama: But so many Vaisnavas are praying...
Prabhupada: So as soon as you understand that “This is not... I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream,” then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, “All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. That is Krsna conscious.

If you keep in Krsna consciousness, that “I am eternal servant of Krsna,” then you are liberated. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaa kalpate [Bg. 14.26], Krsna says. Immediately brahma-bhutah. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. Samah sarvesu bhutesu.

He can see everyone on equal vision. Because he knows, “Here is also another living entity.” He is not a Chinaman. He is a part and parcel of God. He is not a Christian. He is not a Hindu. He is simply thinking like that. So give him Krsna consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?

Cintamani: If, when we realize Krsna, then we have no more desire, then how can we desire...

Prabhupada: You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Krsna, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Krsna. That’s all.

Trivikrama: This feeling that we have, that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Prabhupada: That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krsna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krsna’s service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of maya. You see?

Devotee: Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.

Prabhupada: You are not experiencing. Your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are not feeling cold.

Devotee: But I think I am feeling cold.

Prabhupada: You are thinking. That is illusion. That is illusion.

Devotee: So rise above that.

Prabhupada: Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, “I am now feverish.”

But this feverish will not, condition, will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don’t be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don’t misidentify, “Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished.” No. That is external. It has come; it will go.

That is given in the Bhagavad-gita. Matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah. Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don’t be absorbed in that thought. That’s all. Therefore titiksava. The first symptoms of a saintly person is titiksava, tolerant. Tolerant. So go on reading, go on understanding. Everything will be clear. So next? There is kirtana, or finished? (end)