Leading must be there, direction must be there, but the direction and leading must be perfect

[Excerpt from a Morning Walk--May 8, 1975, Perth]

Prabhupada: That is human life. That inquisitiveness cannot be found in cats and dogs. That is the difference between cats and dogs and human being. Human being, unless he becomes inquisitive for what is the ultimate source, he is not human being. All these people, 99.9 per cent people, they are not inquisitive.

They are searching after some happiness, but they are not inquisitive what is the source of happiness. They are being baffled in the material world. They have, for happiness they have discovered this horseless carriage and so many things, but there is so much unhappiness also when the motor car is crashed between two and life is lost. They are not inquisitive that we have invented this machine for happiness, why this disaster? That intelligence is not. That is it. They are simply going on searching after, but when we say, “No, not in this way, come this way and you’ll get happiness,” They’ll not. That is (inaudible).

Paramahamsa: But if a person becomes too much inquisitive, just like with the boy and the mrdanga, due to his inquisitiveness he ruined the mrdanga, and then he doesn’t have any drum.

Prabhupada: That’s alright. The drum can be purchased again, but he should be given credit because he is inquisitive. You can purchase another drum, it doesn’t matter, but he gets the credit because he is inquisitive.

Ganesa: What about the scientists, Srila Prabhupada? They are very inquisitive, they are trying to find out the cause of the material world.

Prabhupada: That credit we give them. Just like this child. But the childishness is this, that when they are given correct information, they do not take it. (indistinct) If we say to the material scientists that “You are searching after this, here it is, Krsna, aham sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], I am the original source of everything.” they will not accept. That is their foolishness.

Ganesa: They are very inquisitive, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: That credit is already given, but you are inquisitive for a certain thing, if the thing is offered, if you do not accept then you become foolish. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19], Vasudeva, he’ll come to that point, that Krsna is everything, but when you inform him before that here is the thing, he will not take. That is the foolishness.

Paramahamsa: You were saying everyone is inquisitive for happiness, but shouldn’t that be purified? Shouldn’t we give up all desire for happiness?

Prabhupada: No, no. Happiness is life. How you can give up?

Paramahamsa: But if we desire for happiness, then we are being selfish.

Prabhupada: Yes, but you do not know where you is your self... [break] ...sense. That is your foolishness. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31], they do not know. Everyone is selfish, everyone is self-interested. But he does not know how to fulfill it. That is foolishness.

Paramahamsa: But isn’t it better to give up all ego altogether?

Prabhupada: Why? Why? That is Mayavadi philosophy. We make our ego purified. “I am servant of Krsna.” That is wanted. Not that to make my egoism zero. That is Mayavada. They are disappointed, they think finish this egoism. It cannot be finished. Because you are individual soul, it cannot be finished. Simply it has to be purified. I am thinking Indian, you are thinking American. You are neither American neither Indian. We are all part and parcel of Krsna. Direct we have to come to that point. Not to falsely think that I am American, I am Indian, I am cat, I am dog. That has to be finished. But you’ll come to the real egoism, that I am eternal servant of Krsna. That “I am” will go on. No that... They are thinking in a way to finish the “I am” or “I am the same.” Wrong thing.

Ganesa: Srila Prabhupada, the material scientists are so inquisitive, yet they are leading lives like cats and dogs, how can they come to...?

Prabhupada: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, “Sir I want to such and such place.” If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you’ll be baffled, and you’ll be unhappy. Wrong direction.

Paramahamsa: But we are taking some direction from...

Prabhupada: That’s alright, but if you take wrong direction you’ll be unhappy. Your destination will not be (reached).

Ganesa: So how can the scientists arrive at vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]?

Prabhupada: For that he has to take direction from Krsna. Krsna says the destination Himself. He comes and says, “Here is, I am the destination, come here.” But if you don’t take, that is your misfortune. The direction is here. The perfect director is there, but he’s unfortunate—he does not accept this. Therefore he is baffled. We are... Our propaganda is therefore, that you rascals, all blind leaders, rascals, don’t try to lead. Take Krsna’s instruction and lead. Then you’ll be perfect. This is our propaganda. Leading must be there, direction must be there, but the direction and leading must be perfect, then (indistinct). Or enquiries must be there but if the answers or the leading is bad, then you have to (indistinct). So we should make our enquiry to Krsna, and take His direction.

Paramahamsa: But some people say that the Bhagavad-gita is the direction, and some people say that the Koran is the direction, some people...

Prabhupada: Some people. Many authorities say it is right, and that is your fortune or misfortune. As some people say that it is written by some man or something, then it is not perfect. There are many others also, they say it is perfect. Now it is your choice, whom you to follow. So that some people as they are against, there are for also. Now it is up to you to accept whom. It is up to you. We accept the direction of the acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Caitanya. Their word is perfect. They take the direction of Gandhi or this man, that man. Both of them are taking direction, but when the direction is perfect, then you become perfect. If the direction is imperfect, you remain imperfect. That’s all.

Ganesa: We can see from the results of those different directions.

Prabhupada: Yes. Results, phalena-pariciyate. That is required. Now there are so many Gandhi-ite students. They have also read Bhagavad-gita, and you have also read Bhagavad-gita. Find out the difference. That is the result.

Paramahamsa: We have heard that Gandhi was a great mahatma.

Prabhupada: You have heard. You have heard so many things. That mountain gave birth to a mouse. You have heard like that.

Paramahamsa: But Gandhi also read the Bhagavad-gita, and he made so many wonderful comments on the Gita.

Prabhupada: That wonderfulness is for the rascals and the fools. What wonderful he has done? He preached nonviolence, but he was killed by violence. That is his wonderful example. He preached the philosophy of nonviolence, which is impossible. Therefore Krsna killed him by violence. This is his wonderful. And his foolishness was proved, that there cannot be nonviolence. So he was a fool.

Paramahamsa: But he himself was nonviolent.

Prabhupada: Nonviol... That’s alright, he was a fool. Therefore I say you cannot bring nonviolence in politics. There is no such history. Just like Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent. Krsna chastized him, that you are a foolish number one. So... This is to bring a horse before a cart. Politics and nonviolence, it is incompatible. It is not possible. And he did it. Therefore he was a fool. Just like if you want to cook without fire. Is it possible?
Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, “Now I shall cook without fire.” You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, “I’ll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child.” There is no history, and if I say, “Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child.” These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?

Paramahamsa: But they have made a way so that the women also don’t have to become pregnant. This contraceptive, and...
Prabhupada: This is another foolishness. (indistinct) another... [break] This unnatural thing. [break] What is this insignia?
Srutakirti: That is Ford’s insignia.
Prabhupada: Ford? This is Ford?
Srutakirti: This is a Ford?
Ganesa: LTD.
Ganesa: Does it mean we should use violence to spread Krsna consciousness then, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: No. Yes, when there is politics, that is necessary. I am speaking of politics, not of love. You cannot create love by violence. That is another thing. But if you want kingdom, there must be violence. By violence you cannot force a woman, agree to love you. That is not possible. Then there must be love. The business must be done accordingly. But when there is politics, there must be violence. Otherwise you cannot come out victorious. [break] ...in a friendly way. “Might is right.” So Gandhi did this foolishness and he died of violence. (laughs) He praised the philosophy of nonviolence, but he was himself killed by violence. That was his foolishness.

Paramahamsa: But we have seen Lord Buddha, he conquered all of India with ahimsa, nonviolence, Lord Buddha.
Prabhupada: Lord Buddha was not a politician.
Paramahamsa: But he conquered India. He became the most...
Prabhupada: That is another thing. He conquered India. If he con-quered India, why he is driven out of India? Nobody is Buddhist now in India. And in Japan, nearly also halfway, so that is (indistinct). Buddha’s nonviolence and Gandhi’s nonviolence is different.
Paramahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Gandhi’s nonviolence all rascaldom because he was dealing in politics. Buddha never entered in politics. So how you can compare with Buddha? His activities are different. His activity of false vibration(?), to stop all kinds of miseries of material world. That was his philosophy. He never dealt in politics. Although he was a king’s son, he never dealt in politics. You cannot... This is foolishness. We do not know. We do not study what is Buddha’s position, what is Gandhi’s position.

Paramahamsa: But still, everyone in India respects Gandhi so much. They have statues and everything.

Prabhupada: That is another thing. He was a good gentleman. He was very humble, meek. Because you have got some fault, that does not mean you have no qualities. That is another thing. But if you deal wrongly with something, then you must be called a foolish man. You may have very good qualities, but if you do not know how to deal with business, then you are foolish. He was mainly engaged in politics, but he did not know how to deal with politics. He was reading Bhagavad-gita and he was misleading people that in the Bhagavad-gita there is nonviolence. Just see. Because Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent the whole Bhagavad-gita was taught to him, how to become violent, and this rascal said that in the Bhagavad-gita there is nonviolence. It is not false? So a man preaching falsehood, is he a gentleman? Or he is a right man?
Paramahamsa: No.

Prabhupada: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gita. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gita or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahatma, a religious man. That was his cheating.

Paramahamsa: So because people are so much in darkness about religion, therefore they say...

Prabhupada: Yes, everyone is in darkness. If you can make propaganda, the people will be misled. That is not very difficult. Just like from Russia, nobody is communist. But it is going on—the Russia is communist country. I have studied thoroughly. Nobody is communist. Maybe a few only. But it is going on by propaganda that Russia is a communist country. The people in general, they are forced to accept it. That book was written by some man, terrorism. It is terrorism. That’s it. By force. Nobody accepts this communist philosophy, I have studied. (everyone gets out of car) They were very, very unhappy. The young man cannot go out of the country. Just see. Restricted. How much uncomfortable he is feeling. Especially in European countries, the young men, they want to go. But they will not allow. They will not allow anything to read except Lenin’s literature. What is this? Simply suppressing. Everyone is unhappy. Which way? This way? This is their position. I have seen it directly. And as soon as one is suspected that he is doing otherwise, he will be sent to some unknown camp. Nobody knows where he has gone.

Paramahamsa: Just like they had some people who came to Russia to start some Buddhist thing, and then they were sent away to some camp, concentration camp.
Prabhupada: Never seen again.
Paramahamsa: No one has seen them.

Prabhupada: Just see. This is their... It is the most fallen country. No freedom. No freedom at all. Horrible country.

Ganesa: Why don’t the people revolt if they’re so unhappy?

Prabhupada: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.

Paramahamsa: Not a big upheaval because they are terrorized. They are afraid that if they revolt, then they...
Prabhupada: They will be killed.
Paramahamsa: Yeah, the government will come out and just shoot them all.

Prabhupada: Yes, all the Leninists and Stalinists, they kill. It is a country of terrorism. That’s all. The government men, they are simply terrorists. That’s all.

Paramahamsa: Just like in Cambodia they just, the new Communist government, they executed tens and thousands of people just recently.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Paramahamsa: People who were working for the old government. They just killed them all. So this what the people are afraid of.

Prabhupada: Yes. Terrorism. This Communism means terrorism. (aside:) Thank you.
Amogha: I have a garland, but it’s not finished. Almost...

Prabhupada: Communism means terrorism. That I have seen. I have studied personally. By threat, by pressure, that’s all. Nobody is communist in Russia.
Jayadharma: Is the whole world going to become Communist, Prabhupada? Or is the whole world going to become Krsna cons...

Prabhupada: Nobody is Communist, but if the demons are powerful, they will declare.
Paramahamsa: They will introduce it.
Prabhupada: They will not introduce; they will declare like that, falsely. That’s all.
Paramahamsa: Even in some countries where Communism has a very light influence, like in Thailand there’s a little bit of Communist influence, when they had a student revolt, the government came in with tanks and machine guns and immediately killed about three thousand students.
Prabhupada: In Thailand?
Paramahamsa: Yes. In Bangkok. That was about two years ago.
Prabhupada: Oh, just see.
Paramahamsa: So the people are very afraid to cause any upheaval. They are afraid that immediately the government will just come and kill them. ’Cause the government has all the weapons. They have the tanks and the guns and everything. And the normal people, they don’t have any weapons.

Prabhupada: This is the age of Kali-yuga. Therefore the only shelter is Krsna. There is no other way. In India it’s practically dwindling. Now there is no reason they are not sanctioning our temple. They do not give any reason. “No!” Why “No”? “We don’t give any reason.” And “Kirtana is nuisance, nuisance.” They are doing that already.

Srutakirti: Srila Prabhupada? For breakfast just fruits?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Srutakirti: Milk?
Prabhupada: No. You can... Cashew and ginger. And you make, what is called, channa. In the lunch make cheese. Cheese, cheese. Fry it, and make preparation.
Srutakirti: Tomato and cheese?
Prabhupada: Tomato, cheese, potato. Yes. And fried peanuts? And salad, fruit. By force... Communism is going on, by force. It is the result of sinful life.
Paramahamsa: They’re put into that circumstance.

Prabhupada: Yes, people are sinful, they will not do nicely, and now, by nature... Just like this child killing. They did it in his previous life. Now he is suffering. He will be killed. The nature’s reaction. We are taking sympathy with the child who is being killed, but we do not know that he did the same business. Now he is being killed. That is nature’s law.

Paramahamsa: The person who doesn’t know, he thinks that the child is innocent...

Prabhupada: Innocent child. He’s not innocent. He is sinful. He is being, what is called, chastised. Svakarma-phala-rupa-jiva. That is the word, svakarma. One suffers... (aside:) You can sit down here, just like... Everyone suffers the reaction of his own work. Svakarma-phala-rupa-jiva. Because he is a child, he takes sympathy, “Oh, such a small child is being killed.” We take it like that. It is that he is the potent criminal. Now he is being punished.

Paramahamsa: You were saying with all these wars. The people that are being killed are simply...

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore those who are in high standard, they do not take anything as wrong. Everyone is suffering his own reaction. Then bhaktas, they think, tat te ’nukampam susamiksamano bhunjana evatma-krtam vipakam. When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that “I am suffering for my past deeds. [break] ...me.” That is a devotee’s attitude. “Let me do my business, chant Hare Krsna.” And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn’t care for all this suffering. He thinks, “I am suffering for my past deeds. That’s all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna.” That is the first-class position. He is assured. In spite of all material difficulties, if he goes on with chanting, then his chance is first. That is stated. Daya-bhak. Daya-bhak means he inherits God’s property as the son’s inherits the father’s property. Daya-bhak. So we should be callous with all these political, social... We should simply go on. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He was callous. Family affairs, wife’s responsibility, for mother’s responsibility for... Nothing. Simply chant Hare Krsna. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. adi 17.31]. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s life. Even didn’t care for anything, no responsibility. “My only business is chanting.” That is... You preach for some time. Then you simply engage in chanting. Preaching means to make him strong, preaching, to become firmly convinced in Krsna consciousness. That is preaching. So when he is firmly convinced, then he can give up preaching and sit down and simply chant. Not in the beginning. That is imitation. He must be firmly convinced. So we have to study Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s life. Except—this is the clear and simple truth—except chanting Hare Krsna mantra, there is no other business of the human being. So this preaching is also chanting Hare Krsna mantra. This is preaching. That has been shown by all the disciples of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. All the Gosvamis, Haridasa Thakura and others, only did that, how to develop Krsna consciousness, no other business. That is sannyasa. He has no other business. To preach Krsna consciousness, to practice Krsna consciousness, to convince Krsna consciousness, that’s all, no other business. We don’t take part in politics, sociology, and mental speculation, “science,” or so on, so on, all nonsense. We reject, all kicked out. That is the perfection. It is simply waste of time. These are all superficial. Just like waves in the sea. Where is the meaning? The waves are going on. Oh, very nice. You collected all these flowers?
Amogha: Yes.
Prabhupada: Great service.